nosborne48 wrote:So. Vlad the Terrible is doing something none of his Soviet predecessors dared to do; he's calling the West's nuclear bluff. He's right. We won't use the ultimate weapon to protect the independence of some Eastern European country no one has ever heard of, right? Even if that country is an ally, I'll bet.
nosborne48 wrote:Or the rest of Ukraine? Or the Baltic Republics? Or Finland? Or Kazakhstan? That's what I'm saying. What is our protocol? I'm sure there IS a protocol and I understand why it's secret but I wish I had some idea of how far is too far. France maybe. Or Germany. Probably not Poland?
nosborne48 wrote:So. Vlad the Terrible is doing something none of his Soviet predecessors dared to do; he's calling the West's nuclear bluff.
He's right. We won't use the ultimate weapon to protect the independence of some Eastern European country no one has ever heard of, right? Even if that country is an ally, I'll bet.
Unfortunately, that lesson once learned cannot be unlearned. Vlad now knows that he can do whatever he likes and we are powerless to stop him.
Thirty-five years ago as a Cold Warrior keeping watch at sea I wondered if the Soviets would ever figure it out, that we would never actually use the arsenal we'd created. (Much bigger then than now and still bigger than we need, in my opinion.) The Soviets foreswore First Use but we refused to offer even that meaningless assurance to the nervous world.
Maybe we should let Iran develop their Bomb after all. They may need it. Meanwhile, WE need to develop a clear protocol. What will we do in response to THIS but not in response to THAT.
Eric wrote:nosborne48 wrote:So. Vlad the Terrible is doing something none of his Soviet predecessors dared to do; he's calling the West's nuclear bluff.
He's right. We won't use the ultimate weapon to protect the independence of some Eastern European country no one has ever heard of, right? Even if that country is an ally, I'll bet.
Unfortunately, that lesson once learned cannot be unlearned. Vlad now knows that he can do whatever he likes and we are powerless to stop him.
Thirty-five years ago as a Cold Warrior keeping watch at sea I wondered if the Soviets would ever figure it out, that we would never actually use the arsenal we'd created. (Much bigger then than now and still bigger than we need, in my opinion.) The Soviets foreswore First Use but we refused to offer even that meaningless assurance to the nervous world.
Maybe we should let Iran develop their Bomb after all. They may need it. Meanwhile, WE need to develop a clear protocol. What will we do in response to THIS but not in response to THAT.
Iran, Russia and all our "friends" smell the blood. Some one made this nation apologetic and perceived weak.
I doubt that Putin would have done this if strong national conservative was in in the WH in the last 5+ years.
He is boldly sending a message to the world.
I see his poker face do. This is his moment to in to history even more then "keeper" - "Hozyain" who rescued Russian Federation from kayos of 90's.
Maybe he watches NBA and LA Lakers give him perspective and isea.
How do you think we should respond?
Rich Douglas wrote:Eric wrote:nosborne48 wrote:So. Vlad the Terrible is doing something none of his Soviet predecessors dared to do; he's calling the West's nuclear bluff.
He's right. We won't use the ultimate weapon to protect the independence of some Eastern European country no one has ever heard of, right? Even if that country is an ally, I'll bet.
Unfortunately, that lesson once learned cannot be unlearned. Vlad now knows that he can do whatever he likes and we are powerless to stop him.
Thirty-five years ago as a Cold Warrior keeping watch at sea I wondered if the Soviets would ever figure it out, that we would never actually use the arsenal we'd created. (Much bigger then than now and still bigger than we need, in my opinion.) The Soviets foreswore First Use but we refused to offer even that meaningless assurance to the nervous world.
Maybe we should let Iran develop their Bomb after all. They may need it. Meanwhile, WE need to develop a clear protocol. What will we do in response to THIS but not in response to THAT.
Iran, Russia and all our "friends" smell the blood. Some one made this nation apologetic and perceived weak.
I doubt that Putin would have done this if strong national conservative was in in the WH in the last 5+ years.
He is boldly sending a message to the world.
I see his poker face do. This is his moment to in to history even more then "keeper" - "Hozyain" who rescued Russian Federation from kayos of 90's.
Maybe he watches NBA and LA Lakers give him perspective and isea.
How do you think we should respond?
Please tell me what a President should have done that this one has not done. Please share, and be specific. (This usually ends the argument.)
Hint: Don't use the previous "strong national conservative" who preceded this President. You know, when the Russians invaded (invaded!) Georgia.
Seriously, what should the President do that he's not already doing?
Rich Douglas wrote:But what should the President DO that he isn't already? Funny how specifics never seem to emerge, just vague complaints.
Eric wrote:Rich Douglas wrote:But what should the President DO that he isn't already? Funny how specifics never seem to emerge, just vague complaints.
There were things that he should have been done when there was a window of opportunity for diplomacy with the new elected government of Ukraine.
And like the Biblical Law it has commandments what to do and what not to do.
What not to do some of it is to late.
Some specifics:
1. Not to cut in our military and important agencies as mentioned earlier.
2, Should have worked through the OSCE to approve and deploy a large civilian monitoring mission in eastern Ukraine that could have helped set the record straight about alleged threats to ethnic Russians and reveal Putin's effort to inflame the situation as an excuse for further aggression.
3. Enhance NATO's force presence, security cooperation, and military exercises, especially in Central and Eastern Europe and the Baltic countries.[\quote]
We're already there. The Baltic states are now NATO members.
4. immediately within NATO to take all necessary steps that can prepare for the expansion of the alliance to include countries such as Georgia and Montenegro as soon as possible.
5. Permit and enhance the exportation of U.S. oil and natural gas, especially to NATO allies and other European partners who rely on Russia for those natural resources.
Ukrainian people had a legitimate reason to protest against Yanukovich’s power, considering the overwhelming corruption and other faults of his presidency.
But did current Ukrainian leadership emerged as a result of an unconstitutional coup, without national mandate, - What do you think?
Rich Douglas wrote:Eric wrote:Rich Douglas wrote:But what should the President DO that he isn't already? Funny how specifics never seem to emerge, just vague complaints.
There were things that he should have been done when there was a window of opportunity for diplomacy with the new elected government of Ukraine.
And like the Biblical Law it has commandments what to do and what not to do.
What not to do some of it is to late.
Some specifics:
1. Not to cut in our military and important agencies as mentioned earlier.
The U.S. has the largest military in the world, by far. Larger or smaller, it would not have prevented Putin from taking Crimea. Also, changes to the size of the military are not done unilaterally by the President.
2, Should have worked through the OSCE to approve and deploy a large civilian monitoring mission in eastern Ukraine that could have helped set the record straight about alleged threats to ethnic Russians and reveal Putin's effort to inflame the situation as an excuse for further aggression.
Are you suggesting Putin invaded because of imperfect information?
3. Enhance NATO's force presence, security cooperation, and military exercises, especially in Central and Eastern Europe and the Baltic countries.[\quote]
We're already there. The Baltic states are now NATO members.
4. immediately within NATO to take all necessary steps that can prepare for the expansion of the alliance to include countries such as Georgia and Montenegro as soon as possible.
5. Permit and enhance the exportation of U.S. oil and natural gas, especially to NATO allies and other European partners who rely on Russia for those natural resources.
Ukrainian people had a legitimate reason to protest against Yanukovich’s power, considering the overwhelming corruption and other faults of his presidency.
But did current Ukrainian leadership emerged as a result of an unconstitutional coup, without national mandate, - What do you think?
You seem to think we could have dissuaded Putin with a larger military presence in the area. Sorry, but that doesn't work. No one is going to war over the Ukraine. Putin knows this. You know it. Everyone knows it.
Whether or not the Ukrainians are doing the right thing is another story, not ours.
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