Airforce guys learn

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Airforce guys learn

Postby adaranax » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:14 am

Should i join the air force to be a pilot or not? I'm wondering if i should join the air force to be a pilot, and i wish to be a cargo pilot and have a commercail air line licnese. Or should I learn how to be a pilot in flight school and spend $15,000 to have a commercial pilots license. What way am i more likely to get hired as a ups pilot or fedex?
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Re: Airforce guys learn

Postby Rich Douglas » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:31 am

Becoming a pilot in the Air Force requires that you first become an officer. What commissioning source are you considering and what are your qualifications for it?

Note that the path to becoming an officer and the path to becoming a pilot are both quite difficult. And highly competitive. It's not like they're just waiting for you to sign up.
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Re: Airforce guys learn

Postby major56 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:55 pm

The other armed services (Navy, Marine Corps and Coast Guard) as well as the USAF too offer the ability to become a military pilot. But as Rich previously mentioned, you will need to gain a commission as an officer initially (e.g., thru OTS /OCS, WOCS, ROTC /NROTC /AFROTC, or via an exceptionally competitive U.S. Service Academy appointment). The Army offers pilot training to both commissioned and warrant officers; however, no fixed-wing cargo pilot opportunities I’m aware of –AND a commission or warrant will still need to be acquired to begin with. Again, all existing commissioning avenues are highly selective /competitive.

Note: Seemingly you do not truly want to serve in the military; merely a desire to obtain aviator training in order to become a commercial pilot via government /taxpayer expense (?). The military has ways of eliminating such applicants with similar motivation.
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Re: Airforce guys learn

Postby Rich Douglas » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:55 pm

major56 wrote:
Note: Seemingly you do not truly want to serve in the military; merely a desire to obtain aviator training in order to become a commercial pilot via government /taxpayer expense (?). The military has ways of eliminating such applicants with similar motivation.


I considered hitting that point and declined because I think the OP isn't serious at all. My experience with commissioning programs is certainly consistent with your point--they'll sniff it out and if it doesn't change, they'll snuff it out.
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Re: Airforce guys learn

Postby major56 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:23 am

Rich Douglas wrote:
major56 wrote:
Note: Seemingly you do not truly want to serve in the military; merely a desire to obtain aviator training in order to become a commercial pilot via government /taxpayer expense (?). The military has ways of eliminating such applicants with similar motivation.


I considered hitting that point and declined because I think the OP isn't serious at all. My experience with commissioning programs is certainly consistent with your point--they'll sniff it out and if it doesn't change, they'll snuff it out.

I expect you’re correct; even so, I would truly hate that ANY officer with like motive/s be in charge of and leading enlisted personnel. Fragging could become a thought… :idea:
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Re: Airforce guys learn

Postby Rich Douglas » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:02 am

major56 wrote:I expect you’re correct; even so, I would truly hate that ANY officer with like motive/s be in charge of and leading enlisted personnel. Fragging could become a thought… :idea:


Or engaging like that with crew chiefs, who would NOT be very helpful.

Were you ever enlisted? I was. I was a 21-year-old staff sergeant when I got accepted for Officer Training School. I retired from active duty as a captain (Regular AF) in 1996 at 36.
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Re: Airforce guys learn

Postby major56 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:32 am

Rich Douglas wrote:
major56 wrote:I expect you’re correct; even so, I would truly hate that ANY officer with like motive/s be in charge of and leading enlisted personnel. Fragging could become a thought… :idea:


Or engaging like that with crew chiefs, who would NOT be very helpful.

Were you ever enlisted? I was. I was a 21-year-old staff sergeant when I got accepted for Officer Training School. I retired from active duty as a captain (Regular AF) in 1996 at 36.

My original enlistment was technically as an E-1 (Private); however being fresh out of undergraduate school, I was OCS guaranteed at the outset of my enlistment. And upon reporting to OCS (Quantico, VA) –I was paid as an E-5 (Sergeant). Realistically though … I really did not have any meaningful rank as an officer candidate –simply an OC. Nevertheless and just prior to commissioning (dated the same day if my recollection is correct); I was officially honorably discharged as an E-5 (Sergeant) prior to commissioning ... I presume as were you too. In actuality … merely a paper-work shuffle that probably had something to do with USC: Title-10 Chapter whichever (?).

Subsequent to completing my USMC service obligation as an officer; I inter-service transferred to the US Army. The transferring formalities (paperwork) were concluded the very same day; e.g., I had to resign my Marine Corps commission before accepting the Army commission; and the MC would not officially agree to the resignation without the coexisting Army commission offer; and the Army would not commission me until the resignation. Thus another seeming convoluted paper shuffle –commission resignation w/Honorable Discharge /commission acceptance both completed the very same day and at the very same time (e.g., not allowed to hold two commissions concurrently). And neither my federal time in-service nor date-of-rank (no loss of time-in-grade) changed from the MC to the Army. Bottom-line, I actually have 3-Honorable Discharges (two from the USMC and one via the US Army). Ended up serving 12-years all total. In retrospect –perhaps I should have served the additional 8-years. But at that time…there were other ventures I had decided to embark on. :mrgreen:
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Re: Airforce guys learn

Postby Rich Douglas » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:54 am

I was enlisted for several years (including about 3 as an NCO) prior to going to AF OTS.
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Re: Airforce guys learn

Postby major56 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:37 pm

Rich Douglas wrote:I was enlisted for several years (including about 3 as an NCO) prior to going to AF OTS.

Rich, I recall there being several enlisted Marines (via the enlisted commissioning program /ECP), including NCO’s, in our OCS class. In fact, one DI Gunnery Sgt. (E-7) had arrived from the MC Recruit Depot; either San Diego or Parris Island (do not remember which). Nonetheless, the MC showed no favoritism whatsoever … as the drill instructor “Gunny” was given no more /no less attention by the cadre than the rest of us – he was simply an officer candidate with the same obligation to meet OCS expectation/s.
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Re: Airforce guys learn

Postby Rich Douglas » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:51 pm

major56 wrote:
Rich Douglas wrote:I was enlisted for several years (including about 3 as an NCO) prior to going to AF OTS.

Rich, I recall there being several enlisted Marines (via the enlisted commissioning program /ECP), including NCO’s, in our OCS class. In fact, one DI Gunnery Sgt. (E-7) had arrived from the MC Recruit Depot; either San Diego or Parris Island (do not remember which). Nonetheless, the MC showed no favoritism whatsoever … as the drill instructor “Gunny” was given no more /no less attention by the cadre than the rest of us – he was simply an officer candidate with the same obligation to meet OCS expectation/s.


More than half my class of 200-plus were prior enlisted personnel. I went in May when a lot of enlisted guys were finishing scholarship programs. My roommate and I were both staff sergeants prior to arrival. Tommy and I tore up the program because of our prior experience. Yes, we were treated the same as new recruits, and we (fortunately) had the foresight to treat everything as a new challenge. Good thing, too. While our prior enlisted service helped in some areas, there are aspects of officership you simply have to learn from scratch, putting aside the technical approaches to problem-solving that served you well as an NCO. That was the biggest adjustment.
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Re: Airforce guys learn

Postby major56 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:36 am

Rich Douglas wrote:
major56 wrote:
Rich Douglas wrote:I was enlisted for several years (including about 3 as an NCO) prior to going to AF OTS.

Rich, I recall there being several enlisted Marines (via the enlisted commissioning program /ECP), including NCO’s, in our OCS class. In fact, one DI Gunnery Sgt. (E-7) had arrived from the MC Recruit Depot; either San Diego or Parris Island (do not remember which). Nonetheless, the MC showed no favoritism whatsoever … as the drill instructor “Gunny” was given no more /no less attention by the cadre than the rest of us – he was simply an officer candidate with the same obligation to meet OCS expectation/s.


More than half my class of 200-plus were prior enlisted personnel. I went in May when a lot of enlisted guys were finishing scholarship programs. My roommate and I were both staff sergeants prior to arrival. Tommy and I tore up the program because of our prior experience. Yes, we were treated the same as new recruits, and we (fortunately) had the foresight to treat everything as a new challenge. Good thing, too. While our prior enlisted service helped in some areas, there are aspects of officership you simply have to learn from scratch, putting aside the technical approaches to problem-solving that served you well as an NCO. That was the biggest adjustment.

I believe our class began with 247; graduated 142. Of those not graduating –most were DORs, with others being injured and later recycled into subsequent OCS classes. And a few were discharged due to ultimately sustaining disqualifying injuries. Leadership development was at the forefront throughout the entirety of the program –the Alpha and Omega.

I do not recall the exact number of Marine enlisted candidates (more than a few); but there were also former sister service officer candidates who had been military officers with a break in service. I remember there were a former Navy LTJG as well as an Army 1LT. There was even a former, highly decorated U.S. Army 5th Special Forces Group soldier. I seem to recall he had been awarded both the DSC and SS.

One of the Marines commissioned from our OCS class was my friend and classmate: MAJ Alfred Lee Butler III –who later was the U.S. multinational force liaison officer to the Lebanese Army and in February 1984; “…was one of the last Marines to die in a campaign made infamous by the 1983 bombing of the Marine barracks Beirut, Lebanon.” http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-30643.html

Al’s son 1st Lt Alfred Lee Butler IV (merely 5 years-old when his father lost his life in Beirut):
http://legacy.stripes.com/07/jun07/heroesweb/butler.htm
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