Les Snell seems to be in business again

Discussions on the value or merit of unaccredited programs and institutions.

Les Snell seems to be in business again

Postby John Bear » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:23 pm

Snell was one of the more notorious degree mill operators of the 1990s, running his fake Monticello University from his insurance office in Kansas, with addresses there, in Canada, and in Hawaii -- where the excellent state attorney Jeffrey Brunton successfully sued and closed him down.

Now it seems he is in the Dallas, Texas area, operating the American College of Juris Diplomates (www.jurisdiplomate.org), which does not appear to give degrees . . . but there is also a listing on Craigs List, Dallas, for the Citizen's Law School, associated with the American College,that does seem to offer degrees.
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Re: Les Snell seems to be in business again

Postby cbkent » Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:14 pm

Guess I'm out of luck...

"Licensed lawyers are not eligible for membership.

There are no degree or other educational prerequisites. All others may join the College and enroll in the educational program."
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Re: Les Snell seems to be in business again

Postby ShotoJuku » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:11 pm

From their site: Earn a Graduate Diploma in Jurisprudence, Board Certification as a Juris Diplomate (JDp).

I don't know so I'm asking....Is a JDp legit?
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How legit do you want it to be?

Postby johann » Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:41 pm

Hi

So many "American College" sites. Doesn't anybody give URL's any more? www.theamericancollege.edu is an RA school, meeting the needs of financial professionals - advisors, etc. www.americancollege.edu is in Tamil Nadu, a division of Madurai Kamaraj University of India. Neither school offers law degrees.www.aclaw.com is The American College of Law, a State Approved California school that DOES confer JD degrees. I presume that's the one that might have been spotted on Craig's list. I don't think ANY of these schools has anything to do with Mr. Snell or cice-versa.

Legit? Can't see anything illegal here. The "school" is actually a private members-only organization and says so up front. Can't see anything wrong with courses and certificates for members only. Sure, it's instruction in law, but nobody's making any silly claims - nobody says you can write the Bar Exam or practice law.
Maybe you can be an "un-lawyer" or "anti-lawyer", if I get their drift properly.

Does it make SENSE? Not to me. If you want to pay $5,000 for a diploma - why pay it for this one? You're not qualifying for anything academic or vocational and I can't perceive any prestige. If all you you want a nice diploma, you can get WAY cheaper offers than this!

After reading a little about Mr. Snell's previous schools, I'd wait till this one gets accredited! :mrgreen:

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Re: How legit do you want it to be?

Postby Jack » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:50 pm

johann wrote:Legit? Can't see anything illegal here. The "school" is actually a private members-only organization and says so up front. Can't see anything wrong with courses and certificates for members only. Sure, it's instruction in law, but nobody's making any silly claims - nobody says you can write the Bar Exam or practice law.
Maybe you can be an "un-lawyer" or "anti-lawyer", if I get their drift properly.

Does it make SENSE? Not to me. If you want to pay $5,000 for a diploma - why pay it for this one? You're not qualifying for anything academic or vocational and I can't perceive any prestige. If all you you want a nice diploma, you can get WAY cheaper offers than this!

After reading a little about Mr. Snell's previous schools, I'd wait till this one gets accredited! :mrgreen:

Johann


Johann - I'm no expert when it comes to these matters but I'd like to offer an opinion. You might want to consider adopting a slightly different perspective. Imagine that you are a reasonably well educated individual in a third (or fourth) world country. You have some money but no access. You can get a "legit" law degree/certificate/whatever if you send the money, etc.
The target market is not the USA mainstream. The confusion you've described in your post (above) has been deliberately created.

The tobacco companies could not continue to market their product to the mainstream US market and so they moved to the third world. This is no different.
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Re: JurisDp

Postby johann » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:48 pm

Thankyou, Jack

Your reply was very perceptive. Obviously, something I considered rather silly, but relatively harmless is NOT SO at all!
Yes - I'd agree about the overseas target market, now you've pointed this out!

At the time, an American, with three accredited degrees (ShotoJuku) was asking if it was legit. My take was - it didn't seem illegal but was probably a waste. However, we can both agree that to incur a loss of $5,000 would be worse than a waste - indeed catastrophic to many individuals overseas. My answer would have been different, had I then realized what you pointed out afterwards.

Your tobacco market analogy is well-placed. I certainly feel it applies here.

Thanks again for straightening me out.

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Re: Les Snell seems to be in business again

Postby ShotoJuku » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:00 pm

Yes, I was simply wondering (having never heard of one) is a JDp(?) a legit (aka real) degree title? :?:

OK then......if so, is the school in question legit? :?: :?:
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Re: Les Snell seems to be in business again

Postby Tark » Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:58 am

I was simply wondering (having never heard of one) is a JDp(?) a legit (aka real) degree title?

The "JDp" apparently stands for "Juris Diplomate". The word "diplomate" sounds like "diploma", which in turn may imply a college degree. But the word "diplomate" actually has another meaning: it can indicate that the holder is a certified member of a professional organization. The term "diplomate" is routinely used by professionals, especially in medical fields, who hold certification from a particular specialty board. For example, a dentist who is professionally certified by the American Board of Orthodontics gets the title of "ABO Diplomate".

So the "JDp" is not a degree title at all. The "JDp" credential actually means that the holder is an official member of the "American College of Juris Diplomates", which is a "nonprofit membership organization". Incidentally, the word "college" in the ACJD's name may imply an institution of higher education, but this word actually has another meaning: it can more loosely applied to any association. like the "Electoral College" or the "College of Cardinals". The ACJD uses the word "college" is this looser sense.

OK then......if so, is the school in question legit?

Any US citizen has a free-speech right to offer educational programs to the general public. It's also perfectly OK to charge tuition for such programs, if you can find willing buyers. You typically need approval from the state to issue formal degrees, but the "American College of Juris Diplomates" does not issue degrees, so this requirement does not apply. Any private organization, such as the ACJD, can legally offer membership and any associated titles to the general public. Since the JDp is a professional certification and not a degree, it is arguably legal (of course, this doesn't necessarily mean that it has any value).

Now, there might conceivably be a problem if the credentials issued by the ACJD were somehow confused with college degrees. It seems possible, for example, that the "JDp" title issued by the "American College of Juris Diplomates" could perhaps be confused with the "JD" degrees commonly issued by American colleges and universities. It's even possible that the potential for confusion is deliberate. A skeptic (or a state bar association) might criticize the legitimacy of the JDp credential on these grounds.
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Re: Les Snell seems to be in business again

Postby ShotoJuku » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:07 pm

Thanks for the clarification Tark!
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Re: Les Snell seems to be in business again

Postby ergoproxy » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:04 am

Craig's list?? That is entertaining.
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Re: Les Snell seems to be in business again

Postby Tark » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:27 pm

A Google search demonstrates that the JDp credential is valued by one consulting firm, CEO Strategists, which advertises that its staff have the JDp credential.

Coincidentally, CEO Strategists appear to have the same web layout, home page theme music, and phone number as the American College of Juris Diplomates.
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Re: Les Snell seems to be in business again

Postby johann » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:03 pm

Hi

The layout is similar - and so is the MANAGEMENT team! Mr. Les Snell is listed on this link as a company called CEO Consulting's primary contact. Are they same as /affiliated with CEO Strategists? If so, No wonder they value the JurisDp designation. Here it is....

http://www.ilovegrapevinetexas.com/AllM ... s&b_id=799

Cheers!

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Re: Les Snell seems to be in business again

Postby kellogg » Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:50 pm

John Bear, Les Snell is at it again under the name of Jeff Hunter running Regus University. He lives in Irving, Texas and his girlfriend is in that same area. He uses the name Dax Snell sometimes. I found him on "rip off report". Google that and there is a picture. Please look at it and tell us if this is Les. This is the same man who had Monticello University. He is using the phone number {202}379-2840 but will not answer it. He will listen to a message and call back. He has www.smoothlaw.com, info@ceostrategists.com, info@regusu.org, and info@theamericancolleges.org. He puts up websites and takes them down fast if he knows someone is close to catching him. He is also on eHarmony looking for rich women. What can be done about this man charging thousands of dollars for diplomas that are not worth a penny?
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Re: How legit do you want it to be?

Postby kellogg » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:46 pm

You may not know for sure if this is snell's school but those of us who have been duped by him know it is him. He is all over the internet. I hear he is using aliases such as jeff hunter (how original).


johann wrote:Hi

So many "American College" sites. Doesn't anybody give URL's any more? http://www.theamericancollege.edu is an RA school, meeting the needs of financial professionals - advisors, etc. http://www.americancollege.edu is in Tamil Nadu, a division of Madurai Kamaraj University of India. Neither school offers law degrees.www.aclaw.com is The American College of Law, a State Approved California school that DOES confer JD degrees. I presume that's the one that might have been spotted on Craig's list. I don't think ANY of these schools has anything to do with Mr. Snell or cice-versa.

Legit? Can't see anything illegal here. The "school" is actually a private members-only organization and says so up front. Can't see anything wrong with courses and certificates for members only. Sure, it's instruction in law, but nobody's making any silly claims - nobody says you can write the Bar Exam or practice law.
Maybe you can be an "un-lawyer" or "anti-lawyer", if I get their drift properly.

Does it make SENSE? Not to me. If you want to pay $5,000 for a diploma - why pay it for this one? You're not qualifying for anything academic or vocational and I can't perceive any prestige. If all you you want a nice diploma, you can get WAY cheaper offers than this!

After reading a little about Mr. Snell's previous schools, I'd wait till this one gets accredited! :mrgreen:

Johann
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Re: Les Snell seems to be in business again

Postby kellogg » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:13 pm

Ok i have confirmation that is snell in the picture but who is that woman with him the woman i saw him with was olive with black hair?Is she part of his scam?Anyone know?
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