Sharia Law For Non-Muslims

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Sharia Law For Non-Muslims

Postby Eric » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:49 pm

Sharia Law For Non-Muslims

by Bill Warner
Islam's Sharia law is based on entirely different principles than our laws. This book answers the questions: What does Sharia law mean for the citizens of this state? What are the long-term effects of granting Muslims the right to be ruled by Sharia, instead of our laws? Each and every demand that Muslims make is based on the idea of implementing Sharia law in America. Should we allow any Sharia at all? Why? Why not?
Eric

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Re: Sharia Law For Non-Muslims

Postby SteveFoerster » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:35 pm

Eric wrote:Sharia Law For Non-Muslims

by Bill Warner
Islam's Sharia law is based on entirely different principles than our laws. This book answers the questions: What does Sharia law mean for the citizens of this state? What are the long-term effects of granting Muslims the right to be ruled by Sharia, instead of our laws? Each and every demand that Muslims make is based on the idea of implementing Sharia law in America. Should we allow any Sharia at all? Why? Why not?

These are unanswerable questions without context. In the U.S., the closest they could get would be private arbitration services which use Sharia principles. I wouldn't use one, but if others do then that's none of my business.
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Re: Sharia Law For Non-Muslims

Postby johann » Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:09 am

"Diversity, Diversity, we learned in University," seems to be the mantra of our "Premier Dad," Dalton McGuinty - who still tries to be all things to all people and mostly falls flat on his uh - face.

Dalton (a lawyer prior to his political life) was going to be front-and centre at a photo-op. It was to be the opening of Ontario's first Shari'a Court. Then somebody reminded him of what that was likely to do, re: women's rights, flogging and stoning and what-all not. (Shari'a-ordered floggings and stonings, mostly of young women, were all the rage in places like Nigeria at the time.) I guess Dalton considered the voter-backlash that would most certainly occur.

Thankfully, that so-called "court" was never opened. Sad to say, we've had more than our share of "honour-killings," though... :(

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Re: Sharia Law - Not for ME!

Postby johann » Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:28 am

I should add - I'm not against other religious-traditional courts in our society. As an example, Jewish courts have been operating peacefully in Canada for quite a while - get, sofer and all.

I AM against barbarism and cruelty - no matter how traditional they are!

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Re: Sharia Law For Non-Muslims

Postby Eric » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:04 am

One way to answer the questions is to look at countries that have or had to deal with Sharia law.

For example take Lebanon.

After king Hussein was slathering Palestinians in Jordan, Lebanon opened their doors and observed Palestinians from Jordan.
Palestinians were observed in to Palestinian camps.
As long as they were weak they followed to rule of the land.

When they grew and became strong, the began to 1. demand Sharia law and started to oppress Christians in Lebanon, they set road blocks etc.
Began shooting mortars at Israel etc.
Killing many Lebanese Christians. Then the war came, civil war that destroyed the Paris of Middle East the city Beirut.
There is so mach more that happened, and raise of Hisballa etc.

Remarks of Brigitte Gabriel, delivered at the Duke University CounterTerrorism Speak-Out

I'm proud and honoured to stand here today, as a Lebanese speaking for Israel , the only democracy in the Middle East . As someone who was raised in an Arabic country, I want to give you a glimpse into the heart of the Arabic world.

I was raised in Lebanon , where I was taught that the Jews were evil, Israel was the devil, and the only time we will have peace in the Middle East is when we kill all the Jews and drive them into the sea.

When the Moslems and Palestinians declared Jihad on the Christians in 1975, they started massacring the Christians, city after city. I ended up living in a bomb shelter underground from age 10 to 17, without electricity, eating grass to live, and crawling under sniper bullets to a spring to get water.

It was Israel who came to help the Christians in Lebanon . My mother was wounded by a Moslem's shell, and was taken into an Israeli hospital for treatment. When we entered the emergency room, I was shocked at what I saw.

There were hundreds of people wounded, Moslems, Palestinians, Christians, Lebanese, and Israeli soldiers lying on the floor. The doctors treated everyone according to their injury. They treated my mother before they treated the Israeli soldier lying next to her. They didn't see religion, they didn't see political affiliation, they saw people in need and they helped.

For the first time in my life I experienced a human quality that I know my culture would not have shown to their enemy. I experienced the values of the Israelis, who were able to love their enemy in their most trying moments. I spent 22 days at that hospital. Those days changed my life and the way I believe information, the way I listen to the radio or to television. I realized I was sold a fabricated lie by my government, about the Jews and Israel , that was so far from reality. I knew for fact that, if I was a Jew standing in an Arab hospital, I would be lynched and thrown over to the grounds, as shouts of joy of Allah Akbar, God is great, would echo through the hospital and the surrounding streets.

I became friends with the families of the Israeli wounded soldiers: one in particular Rina, her only child was wounded in his eyes.

One day I was visiting with her, and the Israeli army band came to play national songs to lift the spirits of the wounded soldiers. As they surrounded his bed playing a song about Jerusalem , Rina and I started crying. I felt out of place and started waking out of the room, and this mother holds my hand and pulls me back in without even looking at me. She holds me crying and says: "it is not your fault". We just stood there crying, holding each other's hands.

What a contrast between her, a mother looking at her deformed 19 year old only child, and still able to love me the enemy, and between a Moslem mother who sends her son to blow himself up to smithereens just to kill a few Jews or Christians.

The difference between the Arabic world and Israel is a difference in values and character. It's barbarism verses civilization. It's democracy verses dictatorship. It's goodness verses evil.

Once upon a time, there was a special place in the lowest depths of hell for anyone who would intentionally murder a child. Now, the intentional murder of Israeli children is legitimized as Palestinian "armed struggle".

However, once such behaviour is legitimized against Israel, it is legitimized every where in the world, constrained by nothing more than the subjective belief of people who would wrap themselves in dynamite and nails for the purpose of killing children in the name of god.

*Because the Palestinians have been encouraged to believe that murdering innocent Israeli civilians is a legitimate tactic for advancing their cause, the whole world now suffers from a plague of terrorism, from Nairobi to New York , from Moscow to Madrid , from Bali to Beslan.
*
They blame suicide bombing on "desperation of occupation". Let me tell you the truth. The first major terror bombing committed by Arabs against the Jewish state occurred ten weeks before Israel even became independent.

On Sunday morning, February 22, 1948 , in anticipation of Israel 's independence, a triple truck bomb was detonated by Arab terrorists on Ben Yehuda Street , in what was then the Jewish section of Jerusalem . Fifty-four people were killed, and hundreds were wounded. Thus, it is obvious that Arab terrorism is caused not by the "desperation" of "occupation", but by the VERY THOUGHT of a Jewish state.

Eric

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Re: Sharia Law For Non-Muslims

Postby JFHickey » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:55 pm

Eric wrote:Sharia Law For Non-Muslims

by Bill Warner
Islam's Sharia law is based on entirely different principles than our laws. This book answers the questions: What does Sharia law mean for the citizens of this state? What are the long-term effects of granting Muslims the right to be ruled by Sharia, instead of our laws? Each and every demand that Muslims make is based on the idea of implementing Sharia law in America. Should we allow any Sharia at all? Why? Why not?


"Eric" makes the unsupported, false statement that "Each and every demand that Muslims make is based on the idea of implementing Sharia law in America." Does he also believe that "each and every demand that Christians make" is based on the idea of implementing "Christian law" in America?

This unfounded attack on Muslims, spawned by the fears of uneducated people and spurred on by the ignorant racism of politicians, is reminiscent of the American Know-Nothing movement of the 1850s, which spread fears of the takeover of America by Catholics, or the Nazi propaganda against Jews before WWII, which ended in mass murder.

The rest of us should not take this ignorant racism lightly. If we let the yahoos take over, we will be standing helpless like the "decent" Germans who had thought of the Nazis as unimportant thugs and then were powerless to stop the murder of Jews by their own government. Think of what Rev. Martin Niemoller said about the German Church's failure to protest the persecution of Jews and others. Here is a contemporary way of saying it:

Then They Came for Me (A New Twist)

By Stephen Rohde, a constitutional lawyer and President of the ACLU of Southern California. Adapted from the original by Rev. Martin Niemoller (1937).


First they came for the Muslims, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Muslim.

Then they came to detain immigrants indefinitely solely upon the certification of the Attorney General, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't an immigrant.

Then they came to eavesdrop on suspects consulting with their attorneys, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a suspect.

Then they came to prosecute non-citizens before secret military commissions, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a non-citizen.

Then they came to enter homes and offices for unannounced "sneak and peek" searches, and I didn't speak up because I had nothing to hide.

Then they came to reinstate Cointelpro and resume the infiltration and surveillance of domestic religious and political groups, and I didn't speak up because I had stopped participating in any groups.

Then they came for anyone who objected to government policy because it aided the terrorists and gave ammunition to America's enemies, and I didn't speak up because...... I didn't speak up.

Then they came for me....... and by that time no one was left to speak up.
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Re: Sharia Law For Non-Muslims

Postby Eric » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:10 pm

Sharia law is given to interpretation and we see what it does in the countries that take it to extreme.
You attack on my view of Muslims is wrong. There is no racism in my post. There is an attempt for you to enter it.
The book by the way did you read it? You may be surprised that it is very balanced and non discriminating.

Islam is closer to Judaism then Christianity in the views of Jewish orthodoxy. Many of the ruling in the Sharia law are close to Jewish Rabbinical rulings.

In Lebanon is a good example what Islamism did to it. There are other examples as well.

The truth in Muslim view is this.

There is no sovereign country - all the Earth, land belongs to Allah. This is the sovereign country that is submits to Allah.
The goal is to have all the world to submit to Allah.
Some very strong political forces in the world ride this wave.
My grandfather is from Samarkand, our great grand parents and their parents for many centuries lived in peace and dignity among the Muslims in Uzbekistan.
My grandfather met my Grand mother during the WW2 and they settled in Ukraine in my Grandma's town.

Going back to the subject.
Eric

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Re: Sharia Law For Non-Muslims

Postby nosborne48 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:34 pm

If one accepts the rather controversial idea that the United States was founded as a Christian nation (which I deny) you could argue that Christian law DOES govern here. Even if you don't accept the premise, there is no doubt that Christian thought and values heavily influence virtually everything we do. Now, it's a liberal Christianity, a product of the Enlightenment, but Christianity nevertheless.

Hard for it to be any other way since the history of Western Civilization after the collapse of the Roman Empire in the West through about 1800 is pretty much identical with the history of the Church. The West, for better or worse, IS Christian.

And a good thing, too, on the whole.
Una cosa mala nunca muere.
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Re: Sharia Law For Non-Muslims

Postby johann » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:41 pm

I'm with this lady - Irshad Manji, the "Muslim Refusenik" as she terms herself. For quite a few years, I've seen and heard lots of her on (Canadian) radio and TV and read some of her work. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irshad_Manji

Get more Irshad here: https://www.irshadmanji.com/

Her latest book has been banned in Malaysia -- I'm not surprised. I LIKE her!

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Re: Sharia Law For Non-Muslims

Postby johann » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:57 pm

And there's the case of Asia Bibi, a 37-year-old Pakistani Christian mother of 5, in a filthy jail cell and under a death sentence. That's what this Muslim court thinks of Christians, apparently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Bibi

That's another reason why I don't want any Muslim courts here, thanks!

Johann ( an infidel, but not a pork-eater - both strictly by choice)
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Re: Sharia Law For Non-Muslims

Postby Eric » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:36 am

Do you see what is happening in Algeria, Egypt, Libya, Syria, soon Jordan and Lebanon.
Do you hear?

The so called Arab Spring, IS one big Islamist uprising.
Eric

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Re: Sharia Law For Non-Muslims

Postby JFHickey » Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:04 pm

Eric wrote:You attack on my view of Muslims is wrong. There is no racism in my post. There is an attempt for you to enter it.
The book by the way did you read it? You may be surprised that it is very balanced and non discriminating.

Islam is closer to Judaism then Christianity in the views of Jewish orthodoxy. Many of the ruling in the Sharia law are close to Jewish Rabbinical rulings.

In Lebanon is a good example what Islamism did to it. There are other examples as well.

The truth in Muslim view is this.

There is no sovereign country - all the Earth, land belongs to Allah. This is the sovereign country that is submits to Allah.
The goal is to have all the world to submit to Allah.
Some very strong political forces in the world ride this wave.


I wasn't commenting on the book. I was commenting on your insidious, false statement that "Each and every demand that Muslims make is based on the idea of implementing Sharia law in America." This statement implies that a Muslim asking, for instance, for accommodation for prayer at work is trying to subvert our way of life. In reality, everyone has the legal right to ask for reasonable accommodation for their religious practices without being accused of treasonous motives.

I certainly can see that in many parts of the world there are violent political movements using Islam as a rationale for violence. But that doesn't make it any less insidious and false for you to smear the motives of all Muslims in America.
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Re: Sharia Law For Non-Muslims

Postby Eric » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:01 pm

JFHickey wrote:
Eric wrote:You attack on my view of Muslims is wrong. There is no racism in my post. There is an attempt for you to enter it.
The book by the way did you read it? You may be surprised that it is very balanced and non discriminating.

Islam is closer to Judaism then Christianity in the views of Jewish orthodoxy. Many of the ruling in the Sharia law are close to Jewish Rabbinical rulings.

In Lebanon is a good example what Islamism did to it. There are other examples as well.

The truth in Muslim view is this.

There is no sovereign country - all the Earth, land belongs to Allah. This is the sovereign country that is submits to Allah.
The goal is to have all the world to submit to Allah.
Some very strong political forces in the world ride this wave.


I wasn't commenting on the book. I was commenting on your insidious, false statement that "Each and every demand that Muslims make is based on the idea of implementing Sharia law in America." This statement implies that a Muslim asking, for instance, for accommodation for prayer at work is trying to subvert our way of life. In reality, everyone has the legal right to ask for reasonable accommodation for their religious practices without being accused of treasonous motives.

I certainly can see that in many parts of the world there are violent political movements using Islam as a rationale for violence. But that doesn't make it any less insidious and false for you to smear the motives of all Muslims in America.


Not that easy, you are not fulling us.

First of all, 90% of violence in the world is in Islamic countries or have Islamist involved in them.
Second you accused me of saying "Each and every demand that Muslims make is based on the idea of implementing Sharia law in America."

I went back to my post I don't see this statement by me?

Isn't real Islamist will is the following?

There is no sovereign country - all the Earth, land belongs to Allah. This is the sovereign country that is submits to Allah.
The goal is to have all the world to submit to Allah.

The last but not the least is that there are a lot of independent news providers that money cant buy, they report from Islamic world and we know and we see what is going on.

ANd again, the book that I mentioned is what is it trying to answer

by Bill Warner
Islam's Sharia law is based on entirely different principles than our laws. This book answers the questions: What does Sharia law mean for the citizens of this state? What are the long-term effects of granting Muslims the right to be ruled by Sharia, instead of our laws? Each and every demand that Muslims make is based on the idea of implementing Sharia law in America. Should we allow any Sharia at all? Why? Why not?

This is from the publisher, It on the paper cover of the book.
http://www.amazon.com/Sharia-Law-Non-Mu ... 0979579481

Dr. Warner founded the Center for the Study of Political Islam (CSPI) and is its director. He has produced a dozen books, including a Koran, a biography of Mohammed and a summary of the political traditions of Mohammed. He also developed the first self-study course on Political Islam.
Eric

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People mostly just want bread on the table

Postby SteveFoerster » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:57 pm

Eric wrote:Do you see what is happening in Algeria, Egypt, Libya, Syria, soon Jordan and Lebanon.
Do you hear? The so called Arab Spring, IS one big Islamist uprising.

I don't agree. If that's so, then why did the Egyptian military not back up Mubarak? And why didn't Islamist parties win in Libyan elections? The Arab Spring is firstly a response to poor economic conditions, and secondly a response to decades of tyranny. Islamist factions have done well mostly because they were the ones with the courage to stick around all those years resisting the dictators. But if they don't deliver something better, they'll face the same popular opposition.

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Re: People mostly just want bread on the table

Postby Eric » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:19 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Eric wrote:Do you see what is happening in Algeria, Egypt, Libya, Syria, soon Jordan and Lebanon.
Do you hear? The so called Arab Spring, IS one big Islamist uprising.

I don't agree. If that's so, then why did the Egyptian military not back up Mubarak? And why didn't Islamist parties win in Libyan elections? The Arab Spring is firstly a response to poor economic conditions, and secondly a response to decades of tyranny. Islamist factions have done well mostly because they were the ones with the courage to stick around all those years resisting the dictators. But if they don't deliver something better, they'll face the same popular opposition.

-=Steve=-


Steve
I think that there is a political "game" is going on, Our Secretary of State just visited Egypt, where she got a warm welcome with tomatoes and shoes thrown at the vehicle she was in.
Obviously US Aid and other interests can try and affect the outcome.

The truth is a lot are disappointed with the spring because as you mentioned they want to improve their economic state, what they are getting and I quote is some one who will tell them how to pray.
At least in Egypt that is.
If Assad in Syria is taken down, who will come instead, are they any better of worse?

My grandfather and his grand father etc all lived in dignity and peace among Muslims in Muslim state, even when it became a part of Soviet Union.

Today the Islamic extremists have strong influence on the people they lead, the economic situation I think was just a tool to get people to rebel.
Time will show.
Eric

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