Liberty and Tyranny

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Liberty and Tyranny

Postby Eric » Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:19 am

Liberty and Tyranny – a Conservative Manifesto

http://shaun-martin.suite101.com/libert ... to-a108352

The right book at the right time by the right author.
If you've had enough floating through your life wondering what is happening to your society and country, start with this book. Jefferson believed a government will always expand its powers until encroaching upon every facet of citizen's lives. Then, the people must stand-up and dissolve that government - reducing it to its original size and scope. That time has come for us.

1 On Liberty and Tyranny There is simply no scientific or mathematical formula that defines conservatism. Moreover, there are competing voices today claiming the mantle of "true conservatism" — including neo-conservatism (emphasis on a robust national security), paleo-conservatism (emphasis on preserving the culture), social conservatism (emphasis on faith and values), and libertarianism (emphasis on individualism), among others. Scores of scholars have written at length about what can be imperfectly characterized as conservative thought. But my purpose is not to give them each exposition, as it cannot be fairly or adequately accomplished here, nor referee among them. Neither will I attempt to give birth to totally new theories. Instead, what follows are my own opinions and conclusions of fundamental truths, based on decades of observation, exploration, and experience, about conservatism and, conversely, non-conservatism — that is, liberty and tyranny in modern America. ...
Eric

"The best social program is a good job,"
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Re: Liberty and Tyranny

Postby SteveFoerster » Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:04 pm

Recently here in the D.C. area, one of the classic rock stations was replaced with rightwing talk radio. It was already one of my preset buttons, so I decided to listen for a while. It's good to hear other people's side of things, and besides, as a libertarian, you'd think I'd at least agree with conservatives on economics, gun control, and things like that. I thought maybe these shows would offer insight into those issues. It turns out that's not what they're all about. Instead, it's hour after hour full of hateful vitriol against any and all Democrats, liberals, and these days especially those in the Occupy Wall Street movement.

And who is the worst of these grandstanding buffoons? Yup, your new favorite author, Mark Levin. He doesn't want to talk reasonably about ideas, he literally shouts into the microphone, blathering away about all the people he can't stand. His show is so absurdly childish that listening to it is the talk radio equivalent to watching a train wreck. And remember, this is a guy with whom I probably have significant agreement when it comes to policy.

In fact, I think people like him -- on both the right and the left -- are a big part of the problem. The dysfunctional relationship between the American left and the American right means that neither side is interested in having an actual conversation with the other, because each side is too busy mocking caricatures of the other. Take the Occupy Wall Street movement and the Tea Party movement. These are two groups of people who have a lot in common! The Occupiers can't stand the self-serving role of corporations, especially financial corporations, in government. The Tea Partiers think government spends way too much money. Those in both groups ought to remember the story of the blind men and the elephant, because they are describing exactly the same problem, just from different perspectives. There is a corporatist system in place through which those with money and power maintain their positions at the expense of the rest of us. It is not socialism, and it is not capitalism. It's an elephant that both the Tea Party and the Occupy Wall Street movements are trying to describe. People like Mark Levin stand in the way of progress toward identifying and correcting this problem, and in that, they stand in the way of liberty even as they proclaim its importance.
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Re: Liberty and Tyranny

Postby Eric » Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:06 am

These are two groups of people who have a lot in common!


Really, I don't think so, based on facts one group is the lazy free money , distribute wealth, group the other is responsible, working and protesting. One group the occupy wall street is the opposite of tea Party group. They would like to appear the same but they are very far from each other.
The motivation between Occupy Wall Street and the motivation from the tea party are completely different.
OWS -From their signs, speeches, and websites, they want to continue this push of America down this road of increased government involvement and increased socialism.
The tea party is simply a collection of patriots from across the nation who want to get our country back to its capitalist roots.
Tea Party Express Chairwoman Amy Kremer said she is “offended” that the media portrays the two groups as mirror images of each other.

“I see no similarities,” she said in a fundraising letter. “The OWS crowd have had thousands of arrests, have harassed citizens trying to go to work and do their jobs, have had confrontations with law enforcement and destroyed public property.

“They are a disorganized unruly mob of shiftless protesters that has been reinforced by union and organized labor thugs,” she added.

“Their goal has been to cause as much disruption as possible and force anarchy.

“In contrast, there have been thousands of peaceful and respectful tea party rallies across the USA over the past three years,” she said. “The Tea Party Express alone has hosted over 301 and there has not been one arrest or incident of violence. We say a prayer, recite the pledge of allegiance and sing the national anthem before each rally.”

The Tea Party Patriots website says the differences between the two groups are far greater than any similarities. “For two years now, tea partiers have stood firmly on principle and helped shape the political debate in this country,” the site says.

“They believe in time-honored American values, principles and systems including the freedom to innovate and employ people to implement and distribute one's ideas to the public. They believe freedom from government allows entrepreneurs to try new things, see what works and discard what doesn't.

“By contrast, those occupying Wall Street and other cities, when they are intelligible, want less of what made America great and more of what is damaging to America: a bigger, more powerful government to come in and take care of them so they don't have to work like the rest of us who pay our bills.”

Actually Mark Levine is very smart guy, I listen to him and to me, he makes a lot of sense.
Any way the book is really good to read, even if some try to shoot the messenger.
Eric

"The best social program is a good job,"
President Ronald Reagan
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Re: Liberty and Tyranny

Postby SteveFoerster » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:10 pm

Eric wrote:“By contrast, those occupying Wall Street and other cities, when they are intelligible, want less of what made America great and more of what is damaging to America: a bigger, more powerful government to come in and take care of them so they don't have to work like the rest of us who pay our bills.”

Like I said, too many people on both sides are too busy hating each other to see that the corporatist system is their common enemy. And remember, I agree with you that the European-style nanny state that's attractive to some on the left (including some Occupiers) is a bad idea.
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Re: Liberty and Tyranny

Postby Eric » Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:11 am

OWS has a potential to become a political movement. I understand that there gap between the people who employed and unemployed is growing. There is a good chance that they will be including some people who will give them a bad name.
Some see corporatism strength that may replace governments and be global. Its far fetched.
Eric

"The best social program is a good job,"
President Ronald Reagan
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Re: Liberty and Tyranny

Postby SteveFoerster » Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:12 pm

Eric wrote:OWS has a potential to become a political movement. I understand that there gap between the people who employed and unemployed is growing. There is a good chance that they will be including some people who will give them a bad name. Some see corporatism strength that may replace governments and be global. Its far fetched.

It's only far fetched because corporate executives coopt government power rather than replace it. After all, government is a great tool for regulating potential competition out of existence.
BS, Information Systems concentration, Charter Oak State College
MA in Educational Technology Leadership, George Washington University
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Re: Liberty and Tyranny

Postby Eric » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:24 am

I think this book is more relevant now then ever for my fellow Americans.
Eric

"The best social program is a good job,"
President Ronald Reagan
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Re: Liberty and Tyranny

Postby nosborne48 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:02 pm

Funny thing about OWS...it accomplished a lot more even than some liberals realize. The Occupy movement brought economic injustice into the national dialog and probably helped defeat the GOP plutocracy in the election. The movement deserves some credit for taking on theTea Party and winning.
Una cosa mala nunca muere.
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Re: Liberty and Tyranny

Postby Rich Douglas » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:24 pm

nosborne48 wrote:Funny thing about OWS...it accomplished a lot more even than some liberals realize. The Occupy movement brought economic injustice into the national dialog and probably helped defeat the GOP plutocracy in the election. The movement deserves some credit for taking on theTea Party and winning.


Agreed. Those looking for a transaction result (they do this, it makes that....) will be disappointed. As they should be. OWS was about changing people's perceptions on a host of matters. We've been worshipping the acquisition of money above all else since the 1980's. This has given a wide berth to abusers--from the most recent Wall Street meltdown to the banks and mortgages to the Enron/Worldcom/Adelphi stuff to the S&L scandal. People are waking up to this crap. Instead of hero-worshipping these crooks, we're turning against them. Funny thing is, turning against these criminals doesn't diminish the availability of the American Dream. In fact, it enhances it by leveling the playing field just a bit.

We won't know the full impact of OWS for a long time. These things take a rearward examination.
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Re: Liberty and Tyranny

Postby Eric » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:07 pm

Rich Douglas wrote:
nosborne48 wrote:Funny thing about OWS...it accomplished a lot more even than some liberals realize. The Occupy movement brought economic injustice into the national dialog and probably helped defeat the GOP plutocracy in the election. The movement deserves some credit for taking on theTea Party and winning.


Agreed. Those looking for a transaction result (they do this, it makes that....) will be disappointed. As they should be. OWS was about changing people's perceptions on a host of matters. We've been worshipping the acquisition of money above all else since the 1980's. This has given a wide berth to abusers--from the most recent Wall Street meltdown to the banks and mortgages to the Enron/Worldcom/Adelphi stuff to the S&L scandal. People are waking up to this crap. Instead of hero-worshipping these crooks, we're turning against them. Funny thing is, turning against these criminals doesn't diminish the availability of the American Dream. In fact, it enhances it by leveling the playing field just a bit.

We won't know the full impact of OWS for a long time. These things take a rearward examination.


By watching the movie Inside Job I felt the same after it.
There are issues I agree with and I have noting negative about movements.
It appeared to me that some of the crowd was there to make trouble to small businesses that are not WS gang.

To many people fell victime and lost their homes due to the scam, I totally against such teft. And blame both parties.
Eric

"The best social program is a good job,"
President Ronald Reagan
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