Historical document !!!!!

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Historical document !!!!!

Postby Eric » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:53 am

Historical document !!!!!

There's an old book "Palaestina ex Monumentis Veteribus Illustrata"

Author Adrian Ryland - geographer, cartographer, traveler, linguist,
He knew several European languages, Arabic, Greek,
Hebrew.

The book is written in Latin. In 1695, Ryland has been sent to that
was then called Palestine.

In his trip he visited nearly 2,500 villages mentioned in the Bible.
The study was conducted as follows:
* First, he created a map of Palestine.
Then outlined each settlement, which was mentioned in the Bible or
Talmud with its original name.
* If the original was Jewish, he meant "Pasuk" (proposal
Holy Scripture, which mentioned the name.)
* If the original was a Roman or Greek, bond led to the Latin
or in Greek.

In the end he did census of the settlements.

Here are some key findings and facts:
* Country mostly empty, abandoned, sparsely populated, the main
population in Jerusalem, Acre, Safed, Jaffa, Tiberias and Gaza.
* The majority of people - Jews, almost all the others - Christians,
very few Muslims, mostly Bedouin. * The only exception -
Nablus (Shechem now), which lived about 120 people from
Muslim family Natshe and about 70 "Shomron" (Samaritans).
* In Nazareth, the capital of Galilee, there lived about 700 people - all Christians.
* In Jerusalem - about 5,000 people, almost all the Jews and some Christians.
* In 1695, the year they all knew that the origins of the country - Jews.
* There is no settlement in Palestine, in the name of which there are
Arabic roots.
* Most of the Jewish settlements are the originals, and in some
where the Greek or Roman / Latin.
* In the city of Ramla no Arab villages, which
the original Arabic Mr. azvanie.

The names of Jewish, Greek or Latin, which were changed to
Arabic, in which there is no sense in Arabic. In Arabic
there is no point in names such as: Acre, Haifa, Jaffa, Nablus, Gaza
or Jenin, and names like Ramallah, Al-Khalil (Hebron), Al-Quds
(Jerusalem) - no philological or historical Arab
roots.

For example, in 1696, the year, Ramallah was called Bethel (Beth-El House
God), and Hebron was called Hebron and Cave of Machpelah was called by the Arabs
Al-Khalil (the nickname of Abraham).

* Relandi mentions Muslims only as Bedouin nomads who
came to the city as seasonal workers in agriculture or
construction sites.
* In Gaza, lived about 550 people, half of them Jews and half
Christians. The Jews have successfully engaged in agriculture, in particular
vineyards, olive trees and wheat, the Christians were engaged in trade and
transportation.
* In Tiberias, and Safed Jews lived, but no mention of their occupation, but
Traditional fishing in the Kinneret.
* In the village of Um el-Fahm, for example, lived 10 families, all Christians
(50 people). There was a small Maronite church.

The book refutes the theory of "Palestinian traditions,"
"Palestinian people" and leaves almost no connection between this
land and the Arabs, who even stole the Latin name of this land
(Palestine) and took it to themselves.
Eric

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Re: Historical document !!!!!

Postby johann » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:34 pm

There's a difference between "old books" and "historical documents," Eric!

I can find a newer "old book" (200 years, maybe less --) that says it's just, lawful and proper to make captured Africans labour in your field, as they are (supposedly) less than human. I can find a more-recent "old book" that says all Europe's early 20th-Century economic problems were attributable to Jews, with the exception of those caused by homosexuals and Roma - "Gypsies". Newer quotes attribute current Euro-problems to the "Islamization" of Europe and --again (by Sarkozy) to Roma (Gypsies).

Last year, a white-suited "Hellfire" southern preacher quoted from a very old book (the Bible) as he prepared to burn a Qu'ran.

The book you mentioned is obviously prone to disturbing use. I'll disregard it, as I usually do with propaganda, fearmongering and hate-speech.

Johann
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Re: Historical document !!!!!

Postby Eric » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:54 pm

Johann, not all old books are historical documents yet this book appears to be a such document or at minimum testimony.
I'm not an expert but will be interesting to know why you don't think this is not a historical document? To you its dismissive to the Israelis its not. Where I live now we elected President and his followers who tries to dismiss constitution but this is another topic.

I have no problem with you dismissing it I'm sure there are others but you are not the only one to whom my post was addressed. There are people to whom such information is of high importance. On my end I'm researching it and the story behind it. I follow what is happening in that part of the world.
Russia today announced that they will support in UN a call to recognize Palestinian state. From what I read US will veto such a proposition.

The conflict in middle east and Israeli people trying to hold to their old historical homeland has special interest to me.
Promoting this possibly accurate historical fact is of importance to me. Palestinian people today are a fact and they wanting a homeland is not a news. Them wanting to get reed of Israel and then take Jordan as their homeland and maybe parts of Lebanon and Syria as well.

I have dealt with maximalist and minimalists views of historical Israel and new Israel.
Bible, is very easy to misquote. I seen it and heard it been taken out of context many times. Major religions argue between and among them selves on the meaning of verses and passages in it.
I also read number of versions of protocols of the Elders of Zion. The revised and old. Jews as scapegoat for Europe or other countries is as old as these countries.
Eric

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Re: Historical document !!!!!

Postby johann » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:38 pm

Eric wrote:Bible, is very easy to misquote. I seen it and heard it been taken out of context many times. Major religions argue between and among them selves on the meaning of verses and passages in it..... Jews as scapegoat for Europe or other countries is as old as these countries.


My point exactly, Eric. As with the "old books" I mentioned, people often use old views, old books and the outright lies contained therein to justify hate-speech, territorial claims, inhumane treatment, violence and killing. This "old book" of yours would be GREAT for that, so I'll have none of it.

I will steadfastly refuse to "take sides" on your theme, but it might interest you to know that in Jesus' day, Roman-occupied Judea was only about 50% Jewish - most of the other 50% claimed no religion at all. Just sayin' ...no disrespect to anyone, anywhere.

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Re: Historical document !!!!!

Postby SteveFoerster » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:07 pm

I see this book's age as a drawback, not a feature. The book in question is more than three centuries old. Even if it were accurate, it doesn't seem inherently relevant to today's situation in the same area.

As for who lived there twenty centuries ago, I have no idea why people are supposed to care.
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Re: Historical document !!!!!

Postby johann » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:45 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:I see this book's age as a drawback, not a feature. The book in question is more than three centuries old. Even if it were accurate, it doesn't seem inherently relevant to today's situation in the same area.

As for who lived there twenty centuries ago, I have no idea why people are supposed to care.


Well said, Steve. I don't want the book to be seen as relevant -- nor do I want people (other than historians and history students) to care overly deeply about who lived somewhere 2,000 years ago. (Just pointing out that some widely-held views on the subject may not be 100% historically correct.) Unfortunately, there are people in this world (not you or me) who would readily use such an "old book" as ammo. in their geo-political causes -- and thus good cause (as they see it) for bloodshed.

That's why I'm so "down" on the book - despite its lack of relevance, it has dire potential in the hands of those who could mis-use it. Not a good thing for our forum, as I see it.

As I said before, "The book you (Eric) mentioned is obviously prone to disturbing use. I'll disregard it, as I usually do with propaganda, fearmongering and hate-speech." I hope that can be my last word about this book -- and this subject.

Johann
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Re: Historical document !!!!!

Postby Eric » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:18 pm

I understand your position.
To me this demonstrate that Jews lived there and were majority in that time of history and this is not that far not thousands years but hundreds years. This book also can be used to prevent bloodshed.
The truth should be heard especially when events in that part of the world tend to manifest here in our backyard.
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Re: Historical document !!!!!

Postby johann » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:47 pm

Eric wrote:This book also can be used to prevent bloodshed.


Yeah? How? Is it like that Scottish porridge - "thick enough tae stop a bullet?" :) Seriously, I'd like to know how that would work...
By the way, the book doesn't "demonstrate" anything. Demonstrate means to show (Latin: monstrare). The book merely states.... Some will believe it, some will dispute --- and guns will go off at some point.

Doggone - thought I'd had my last word -- guess not.

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Re: Historical document !!!!!

Postby nosborne48 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:30 am

Uh-hunh. Look, friends, there is no "legitimacy" in national territory save that which comes from the muzzles of guns. There is no such thing as national legitamacy AT ALL. Nothing you could ever possibly say, nothing written in any ancient book (including the Bible) will ever possibly convince anyone that the State of Israel has the "right" to exist who is not already convinced of that opinion. It DOES have that right but only so long as it is strong enough to defend itself.

"Who now remembers the Armenians?" Indeed!
Una cosa mala nunca muere.
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Re: Historical document !!!!!

Postby Oregon » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:38 am

Johann

I suppose Lebanon, Armenia, and Assyria (northern Iraq) weren't 80 - 90 % Christian at that time. Gee, I wonder what happened to all those Christians?

Tikrit, home of your favorite former dictator was a Christian city.
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Re: Historical document !!!!!

Postby nosborne48 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:22 am

Favorite? Noooo...I don't THINK so...Oliver Cromwell leads the Big S. by a nose...plus O.C. has the great virtue of being already long dead. :twisted:
Una cosa mala nunca muere.
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Re: Historical document !!!!!

Postby johann » Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:40 pm

nosborne48 wrote:There is no such thing as national legitamacy AT ALL. Nothing you could ever possibly say, nothing written in any ancient book (including the Bible) ....


Good point, Nosborne.

If it supports one's opinion - it's a "historical document."
If not - it's an "old book."

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Re: Historical document !!!!!

Postby Oregon » Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:45 pm

nosborne48 wrote:Favorite? Noooo...I don't THINK so...Oliver Cromwell leads the Big S. by a nose...plus O.C. has the great virtue of being already long dead. :twisted:


Saladin isn't your favorite?
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Re: Historical document !!!!!

Postby SteveFoerster » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:03 pm

Eric wrote:I understand your position. To me this demonstrate that Jews lived there and were majority in that time of history and this is not that far not thousands years but hundreds years.

Even assuming that the book is accurate, what does that matter? Three centuries ago upstate New York was inhabited by the Iroquois, should control of it be returned to them?

This book also can be used to prevent bloodshed.

The only thing that will prevent bloodshed is the understanding on both sides that those from both communities should be able to live in that area. (And no, I'm not holding my breath on that one.)
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Re: Historical document !!!!!

Postby Eric » Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:35 am

When one side argues that the land is theirs and that Israelite, Jews, Hebrews were not there, this kind of document among others shows continues Jewish presence in the holy land. This has value.
Under Brits there was a division plan to divide the land Arabs didn't accept it as far as I know.

The truth in my view is that all the earth belongs to God and the land He gives and takes to whom He pleases.

Psalm 24

Of David. A psalm.
1 The earth is the YHWH’s, and everything in it,
the world, and all who live in it;
2 for he founded it on the seas
and established it on the waters.

3 Who may ascend the mountain of the YHWH?
Who may stand in his holy place?
4 The one who has clean hands and a pure heart,
who does not trust in an idol
or swear by a false god.[a]

5 They will receive blessing from YHWH
and vindication from God their Savior.
6 Such is the generation of those who seek him,
who seek your face, God of Jacob.
Eric

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