Cantor vs. Brat

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Cantor vs. Brat

Postby nosborne48 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:08 pm

Wow! Outspent 10:1 but a complete unknown crushed the Number 2 Republican in Congress!

Someone just said on NPR that dollars don't vote. People vote.

Guess so!
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Re: Cantor vs. Brat

Postby SteveFoerster » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:35 pm

Brat talks about free markets as though that doesn't include free movement of people. He even opposes letting kids stay who were brought here when young and know no other country.
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Re: Cantor vs. Brat

Postby nosborne48 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:53 pm

Especially interesting since Brat is a professor of economics. Wonder how he justifies skewing the free market that way?
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Re: Cantor vs. Brat

Postby SteveFoerster » Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:29 pm

nosborne48 wrote:Especially interesting since Brat is a professor of economics. Wonder how he justifies skewing the free market that way?

Judicious application of cognitive dissonance, I expect.
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Re: Cantor vs. Brat

Postby Oregon » Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:30 pm

nosborne48 wrote:Especially interesting since Brat is a professor of economics. Wonder how he justifies skewing the free market that way?


Maybe he doesn't appreciate bidding down the price of labor of the poorest people in society. As long as janitors, gardeners and waiters wages are kept down, apparently it is a good thing. Meanwhile impediments are in place to limit skilled immigration. Want to make medical care affordable? Let in a million third world doctors. That would pretty much do it.
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Re: Cantor vs. Brat

Postby Jimmy » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:50 am

Never been a fan of Cantor and even less a fan of the Tea Party. I hope the Tea Party candidate in Mississippi's GOP runoff will not defeat Senator Thad Cochran. The race was virtually a tie in the first primary.
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Re: Cantor vs. Brat

Postby Rich Douglas » Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:49 am

Cantor lost because:

a) The Tea Party demands complete fealty, and
b) The GOP can no longer ignore the Tea Party and count on its votes.

In very "red" states like Idaho, this doesn't matter on the local level; the GOP will continue to win elections. But it really matters in two other ways. First, it can tip the balance in "purple" states (like Virginia is becoming) because the Tea Party will insist on unelectable candidates for state-wide elections. Second, the GOP has no chance of winning national (Presidential) elections. None. No way. GOP Presidential candidates will have to pass the Tea Party purity tests which, in turn, will revulse the general electorate.

So, what to do? Well, demographics are certainly against the GOP as it is currently oriented. Things are going to get worse and worse on a local level, threatening to push the GOP to the margins. But it could instead decide to do something shocking: lead. Yes, lead. There was a time when both parties had conservatives and liberals, but no more. The Democrats still have conservatives ("Blue dogs"), but any GOP leader willing to be progressive gets his/her (almost always "his"--another problem) head cut off. Look at all the GOP Presidents in the 20th century before Reagan. They all led from the center. Even Hoover! But now? Who could survive in the GOP while also being progressive? Not a chance.

This country has always moved forward. The conservatives have hated this, tried to stop it, etc. But we continue to move forward in spite of them. I wish, instead, we moved forward with them. But they're not coming. They're regressing instead. The GOP statesmen are gone, replaced instead by the likes of Eric Cantor who, as we saw, is easily replaced by a nobody from a nothing place who has even less to offer. Wow.
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Re: Cantor vs. Brat

Postby SteveFoerster » Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:11 pm

Rich Douglas wrote:Cantor lost because:

a) The Tea Party demands complete fealty, and
b) The GOP can no longer ignore the Tea Party and count on its votes.

Cantor lost because he ignored the rank and file in his own district. He didn't hold public events where he mingled with people, only fundraisers that were open only to donors. Some are also saying that he lost because Democrats crossed over to vote for Brat to disrupt the GOP, I think the effect of that's been exaggerated, but at the same time it surely didn't help him.
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Re: Cantor vs. Brat

Postby Oregon » Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:12 pm

Rich Douglas wrote:This country has always moved forward. The conservatives have hated this, tried to stop it, etc. But we continue to move forward in spite of them.


If you really believe this you are quite the stunned ass. Sharing power, pretty much 50/50 has been the history up to this very day and I am not sure it's going to change soon. Elections are usually about personalities more than policies. By the time Obama finishes his pointless and rudderless second term voters will be crying for a Republican. A vote for Democrats is a vote for more food stamps. A vote for Republicans is a vote for more jobs.
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Re: Cantor vs. Brat

Postby SteveFoerster » Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:18 pm

Oregon wrote:
Rich Douglas wrote:This country has always moved forward. The conservatives have hated this, tried to stop it, etc. But we continue to move forward in spite of them.


If you really believe this you are quite the stunned ass. Sharing power, pretty much 50/50 has been the history up to this very day and I am not sure it's going to change soon. Elections are usually about personalities more than policies. By the time Obama finishes his pointless and rudderless second term voters will be crying for a Republican. A vote for Democrats is a vote for more food stamps. A vote for Republicans is a vote for more jobs.

If you believe that having Republicans in office means greater prosperity than having Democrats there, then you're paying way too much attention to what Republicans say and not enough to what they do. The parties' rhetoric differs because they have different bases to fool, but their fiscal and monetary policies differ only slightly.
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Re: Cantor vs. Brat

Postby Oregon » Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:42 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:If you believe that having Republicans in office means greater prosperity than having Democrats there, then you're paying way too much attention to what Republicans say and not enough to what they do. The parties' rhetoric differs because they have different bases to fool, but their fiscal and monetary policies differ only slightly.


All of their policies differ only slightly. I think rhetoric is important. Since the American manufacturing base has pretty much been taxed and regulated out of existence, I place my bets with the people who, in general, want to reduces taxes and regulations as opposed to the guys who say they want to increase taxes and regulations.
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Re: Cantor vs. Brat

Postby SteveFoerster » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:32 pm

Oregon wrote:All of their policies differ only slightly. I think rhetoric is important.

Sure, why should they go through the trouble of delivering a meaningful alternative when so many people are satisfied when they just say things that sound good?
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Re: Cantor vs. Brat

Postby Rich Douglas » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:48 pm

Oregon wrote:
Rich Douglas wrote:This country has always moved forward. The conservatives have hated this, tried to stop it, etc. But we continue to move forward in spite of them.


If you really believe this you are quite the stunned ass.


Society continues--as it always has--to become more and more liberal. Not in terms of politics, although that's true, too. This society has always been progressive, leaving the relics far behind. We never turn back, no matter how shrill the whining gets. It just doesn't happen, and I'm glad.
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Re: Cantor vs. Brat

Postby Oregon » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:01 am

Rich Douglas wrote:Society continues--as it always has--to become more and more liberal. Not in terms of politics, although that's true, too. This society has always been progressive, leaving the relics far behind. We never turn back, no matter how shrill the whining gets. It just doesn't happen, and I'm glad.


I'm not sure what progressive means but things do change. My understanding is that the more time goes on the more conservative economics become. Socialism seems to be declining in the non-Obama world. The communists are the biggest cut-throat capitalists.

Not sure anymore what liberal means. I am a classical liberal in that I believe in the least government that is reasonably necessary. A lot of people who believe they are liberal want the government to wipe their butts or otherwise control their lives or more commonly those of their errant neighbors.
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Re: Cantor vs. Brat

Postby Jimmy » Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:32 pm

Herbert Hoover was actually quite progressive. And I think Gerald Ford was fairly moderate. I also believe despite Romney's campaign rhetoric, he would have governed from a more centrist position. But the GOP is in very bad shape today. The "Ted Cruz;" have virtually taken over the Party and with rare exceptions, like Peter King, moderate conservatives and moderates in the Party are few and far between.

Neither major Party is in the mainstream people need to seriously think about voting for independents and third party candidates to shake things up.
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