Bundy ranch in Clark County Nevada

Discussions of topics unrelated to education or degrees but still of interest to our members.

Bundy ranch in Clark County Nevada

Postby Eric » Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:43 pm

Bundy ranch in Clark County Nevada

Some one is using a federal agency to seize cattle, and physically intimidate and brutalize a family to possibly facilitate a dirty deal. That's all kinds of illegal. Then they to attempt to cover up the evidence... and that's also a crime.

WHat happened that such brutal federal force had to be used? Tyranny?
Eric

"The best social program is a good job,"
President Ronald Reagan
Eric
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1484
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:07 am
Location: UK / USA

Re: Bundy ranch in Clark County Nevada

Postby johann » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:50 am

Cliven Bundy's fight with the Feds has been going on for nearly 20 years, Eric. Here's the Washington Post's history of it:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the ... overnment/

Alternate conspiracy theories abound - "snapshots" of allegedly altered or scrubbed web-pages, tales or theories involving Sen. Harry Reid, his son, a Chinese energy company and the Bureau of Land Management ... everything except aliens and Sector 51. :)

The conspiracy theories make more exciting reading than the Washington Post article. My take: Exciting fiction sells better than fact. Here's a fairly intriguing account, if you like that kind of stuff...and I know you do. :)

http://scgnews.com/bundy-ranch-what-you ... being-told

in view of the length of this battle, I kind of doubt the conspiracy theories - but then I usually do. Most are (at least theoretically) possible, but not very plausible.

Johann
johann
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2289
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:12 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Bundy ranch in Clark County Nevada

Postby Eric » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:14 am

Its confusing that our borders are not so furiously protected by the Feds.
And also other laws not enforced yet in this case suddenly it comes with all the power.

In my eyes its a continues attack oh American way of living. Bee it IRS use or this agency. I see it as abuse of power.
Eric

"The best social program is a good job,"
President Ronald Reagan
Eric
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1484
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:07 am
Location: UK / USA

Re: Bundy ranch in Clark County Nevada

Postby nosborne48 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:59 pm

The situation is far more complicated than that, Eric, and the roots of the dispute go back a good hundred and fifty years.

The federal government owns the land upon which Bundy is grazing his cattle. Bundy has a grazing lease not the fee simple. Now, federal land is a public resource that the federal government must manage to the benefit of the whole citizenry and not just for the benefit of the local rancher. One thing they do is control the size of the herd to prevent overgrazing.

This would be a lot clearer if all the rancher did was turn his cattle onto the range but it isn't. The holder of the grazing lease also improves it by fencing and assuring adequate stock water. This doesn't come cheap. A rancher can put the money and time into the land then, due to drought, the government can determine that the range will support only two thirds of the planned grazing. So they tell the rancher that he can't graze as much as he planned. The rancher understandably becomes upset at the financial loss.

Overgrazing, Eric, destroys rangeland and does horrible environmental damage. I know. I live here. I see it. And that damage is to PUBLIC, not private, property.

Now I wish that were the whole story but it's not. Nevada is a large, dry state with a history of hard-scrabble ranching, boom and bust mining, and DoD presence. Eighty-seven percent (!) of the surface area of the state is owned by the federal government. And as anyone who has ever dealt with the feds knows, that means control from the Beltway. Well, the bureaucrats in Washington D.C. are as remote and clueless as they often seem to the people whose lives they affect. That has long led to deep resentment and occasional violence.

We had a blow-up near where I live in Southwest New Mexico a few years ago but you will find similar stories throughout the Intermountain West. The feds, when faced with such a situation, have to decide whether enforcing the terms of the lease agreement is sufficiently important to kill someone for. Generally what happens is an arrest warrant will be issued for the rancher then, when things calm down, they will pick him up when he comes to town to do his business.
Una cosa mala nunca muere.
nosborne48
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4158
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:42 am

Re: Bundy ranch in Clark County Nevada

Postby Eric » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:53 pm

nosborne48

Than ks for the explanation. I understand that this is a complex issue.
I wander if a senator was going to use this part of land to allow Chinese solar company with his family members invested in it
to be built on that land?
One educated speculation or theory that is been told.

I hear Bundy are willing to pay the 1 mil USD to the state and claim sovereignty of the state.
Eric

"The best social program is a good job,"
President Ronald Reagan
Eric
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1484
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:07 am
Location: UK / USA

Re: Bundy ranch in Clark County Nevada

Postby nosborne48 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:17 pm

I don't know the answer to that. I have never seen any hint corruption at the local BLM level here in New Mexico but that means nothing really. There are corrupt government officials at every level somewhere.
Una cosa mala nunca muere.
nosborne48
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4158
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:42 am

Re: Bundy ranch in Clark County Nevada

Postby nosborne48 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:25 pm

Incidentally, in addition to everything else, Bundy refuses to pay rent for the use of the land. He claims to own it somehow, a claim that has been rejected by the Courts.

The perception is not uncommon, actually. If a rancher holds a grazing lease in the family for thirty years, it's easy to forget the land really isn't yours.

As I say, there was no need to engage in an exchange of bullets. The government can simply obtain the warrants and collect the participants as the opportunities present themselves.
Una cosa mala nunca muere.
nosborne48
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4158
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:42 am

Re: Bundy ranch in Clark County Nevada

Postby nosborne48 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:36 pm

Just one last note: I don't know what Bundy's circumstances are but most of these guys are far from rich. Cattle raising on the public range is not an economically viable activity and hasn't been since the 1880s. But the life of the rancher is the life of a cowboy in the Old West. It almost a religion with these people. The work very hard for very small returns because of a strong internal sense that what they are doing is "right". They are participating in the myth of the Western American.

Twenty five years ago, an article appeared in a trade publication for Land Use Administrators suggesting that the Great Plains should be turned back into a wild "Buffalo Commons". The author made a solid argument for an unlikely policy. The result was literally YEARS of furious condemnation from just about everyone involved. The result was a firestorm that's still raging.

It's the myth, you see, that has these people in its grip and it's the myth that may well land Bundy and his well-armed allies in federal prison.
Una cosa mala nunca muere.
nosborne48
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4158
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:42 am

Re: Bundy ranch in Clark County Nevada

Postby Rich Douglas » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:25 am

Ohhhh, you said "Bundy" Ranch in Nevada. Had me confused there. :twisted:
Rich Douglas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2155
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:07 pm

Re: Bundy ranch in Clark County Nevada

Postby Eric » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:50 am

Rich Douglas wrote:Ohhhh, you said "Bundy" Ranch in Nevada. Had me confused there. :twisted:


With whom, Al Bundy ? :-)

Leona: I want my money back. These shoes are as useless to me as a comb is to you. I've only worn them once, and they split at the sides.
Al: Let me explain this. It's just like an elevator. There's a two-ton weight limit. What say I just nail the soles to your feet? It'll give you more traction when you're pulling the ice wagon.
Leona: You'll be hearing from my attorney!
Al: Is that the law offices of Haagen and Daaz?
Eric

"The best social program is a good job,"
President Ronald Reagan
Eric
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1484
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:07 am
Location: UK / USA

Re: Bundy ranch in Clark County Nevada

Postby Rich Douglas » Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:33 pm

Eric wrote:
Rich Douglas wrote:Ohhhh, you said "Bundy" Ranch in Nevada. Had me confused there. :twisted:


With whom, Al Bundy ? :-)



Uh, no.
Rich Douglas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2155
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:07 pm

Re: Bundy ranch in Clark County Nevada

Postby SteveFoerster » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:31 pm

Rich Douglas wrote:Uh, no.

Well I got it. On the other hand, that may speak better of Eric than it does of you or me. :twisted:
BS, Information Systems concentration, Charter Oak State College
MA in Educational Technology Leadership, George Washington University
PhD in Leadership, U. of the Cumberlands (in progress)
More about me at my site
SteveFoerster
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2352
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:41 pm
Location: Northern Virginia & Dominica, West Indies

Re: Bundy ranch in Clark County Nevada

Postby nosborne48 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:31 pm

Just another rumination from a Westerner born and bred.

I have never liked the widespread federal ownership of public land in the West. It's all quite legal and the various states agreed to it when they applied for admission to the Union. I'm no Sagebrush Rebel.

But Dang! The People are supposed to govern themselves in their states. Yet close to three-quarters of the surface area of the Intermountain West is federal property and administered by one or another federal agency. We can't do needful things like reform the Mining Act of 1872, we can't make policy decisions about wetlands and reclamation, we can't manage forests for fire and watershed, not because the expertise isn't there, but because we can't be trusted to do what the Easterners think is a good, faithful job.

But on such state lands as we do control, we do all of these things.

The real irony is that the Bureau of Land Management was created to take title to all the Western land that no one else wanted. It has become a huge and distant land owner that we must deal with to survive. We live here. They don't. It's irritating.
Una cosa mala nunca muere.
nosborne48
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4158
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:42 am

Re: Bundy ranch in Clark County Nevada

Postby Rich Douglas » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:06 pm

There are two issues that are related in that they stem from the same condition. But they are being conflated.

Whether or not the Federal government should control all that land is one. Fine but the other, this continuous lawbreaker and the armed mob that threatened government officials doing their jobs is another thing entirely. And that's the issue I want dealt with. Lock 'em up.
Rich Douglas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2155
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:07 pm

Re: Bundy ranch in Clark County Nevada

Postby nosborne48 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:54 pm

Don't worry about it, Dr. Douglas. No one pulls a gun on a federal employee and gets away with it.
Una cosa mala nunca muere.
nosborne48
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4158
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:42 am

Next

Return to Off-topic Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron