US House Democrats try to [b]force[/b] immigration vote

Discussions of topics unrelated to education or degrees but still of interest to our members.

US House Democrats try to [b]force[/b] immigration vote

Postby Eric » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:17 pm

US House Democrats try to force immigration vote

WASHINGTON (AP) — House Democrats deployed a little-used legislative move Wednesday to force a vote on a comprehensive immigration bill that would provide a path to citizenship for the estimated 11 million immigrants living in the U.S illegally and tighten border security.

Regen Amnesty was for 3 to 3 million , ended up what 7 to 9 million?

House Dems try to force vote on immigration Associated Press

The effort seemed doomed to fail but was designed to increase the election-year pressure on Republicans to act.

40 million illegals from all nationalities, many of our jobs are overseas, our social security is given to those who never paid in already so what will happen when you add 40 million who never paid in, you as a worker supply welfare to some already and food stamps to some who are not even in the country.
This will destroy your vote it will destroy your children's future and your future also. Even as a Democrat you have to see the economics of this,
Eric

"The best social program is a good job,"
President Ronald Reagan
Eric
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1484
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:07 am
Location: UK / USA

Re: US House Democrats try to[b] force[/b] immigration vote

Postby nosborne48 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:59 pm

No, Eric, our Social Security will NOT pay 11 million aliens who never paid in. It won't pay natural-born U.S. citizens who haven't paid in. Where did you get such an idea?

In order to qualify for retirement benefits, an individual must accumulate 40 quarter credits of employment history which means, non-technically, working and paying into the Social Security system for at least ten years. A disability pension can be had after 20 or even fewer quarter credits but Social Security disability is hard to get.

The amount of any social security pension payment is determined by age, years worked, and salary history.

All of this information is readily available at http://www.ssa.gov
Una cosa mala nunca muere.
nosborne48
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4158
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:42 am

Re: US House Democrats try to [b]force[/b] immigration vote

Postby Rich Douglas » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:44 am

Increased immigration is a sure way to stabilize Social Security, not stress it, by providing new payers into the system.
Rich Douglas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2155
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:07 pm

Re: US House Democrats try to [b]force[/b] immigration vote

Postby johann » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:55 am

Rich Douglas wrote:Increased immigration is a sure way to stabilize Social Security, not stress it, by providing new payers into the system.

Indeed it is. At least, it works that way here, in Canada. :)

Johann
johann
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2289
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:12 pm
Location: Canada

Re: US House Democrats try to[b] force[/b] immigration vote

Postby Eric » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:17 pm

nosborne48 wrote:No, Eric, our Social Security will NOT pay 11 million aliens who never paid in. It won't pay natural-born U.S. citizens who haven't paid in. Where did you get such an idea?

In order to qualify for retirement benefits, an individual must accumulate 40 quarter credits of employment history which means, non-technically, working and paying into the Social Security system for at least ten years. A disability pension can be had after 20 or even fewer quarter credits but Social Security disability is hard to get.

The amount of any social security pension payment is determined by age, years worked, and salary history.

All of this information is readily available at http://www.ssa.gov


As some one who started his life in USA in heavy populated immigrant community I was surprised when elderly immigrants who just came to US got pensions. Even my wife's grandparents.
Her parents were saying that the elderly get pensions at times higher then Americans who were born here.
The Mother who is a music/ piano teacher was paying all the taxes as self employed and her pension after paying since 1980
is the same as her parents who never worked a day in USA.
Then there is huge number of immigrants on SSi, they all get SS money, I think a lot of scam going on there.
I seen log time ego FBI raid law and Dr offices for such fraud etc.

As to 11 million that some correct me I will say triple this number at least double it. Remember President Reagan Amnesty, estimated 3 to 4 million of undocumented immigrants became more then 10 million.
Now apply what I just posted to the new numbers.

AS to economy I remember an Electronics manufacturing company near by, they employed high numbers of electronics technicians mostly white Americans, some Asian and Afro Americans as well as Latinos is small #,s who were earning
in the 1987 around 9 to 14 USD an hour. After the amnesty passed a lot of new Technicians got hired, they barely spoke English mostly Hispanic, they were paid 6.5 to 8.5 USD an hour. All the Technicians that earned 10 USD and above were let go, downsized.

I would lobby to add a new tax nation wide on Federal level, asking all non Citizens residing in USA to pay yearly non citizen resident tax.
Eric

"The best social program is a good job,"
President Ronald Reagan
Eric
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1484
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:07 am
Location: UK / USA

Re: US House Democrats try to [b]force[/b] immigration vote

Postby Rich Douglas » Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:26 pm

Am I mistaken in that one must have worked 40 quarters to earn full Social Security?

Regardless, Social Security payments are highly stimulative to the economy. That's a good thing.
Rich Douglas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2155
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:07 pm

Re: US House Democrats try to [b]force[/b] immigration vote

Postby Eric » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:59 pm

Rich Douglas wrote:Am I mistaken in that one must have worked 40 quarters to earn full Social Security?

Regardless, Social Security payments are highly stimulative to the economy. That's a good thing.


Following this logic we should possibly offer more Social Security payments to every one to keep our economy stimulated .
Eric

"The best social program is a good job,"
President Ronald Reagan
Eric
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1484
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:07 am
Location: UK / USA

Re: US House Democrats try to [b]force[/b] immigration vote

Postby Rich Douglas » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:32 am

Eric wrote:
Rich Douglas wrote:Am I mistaken in that one must have worked 40 quarters to earn full Social Security?

Regardless, Social Security payments are highly stimulative to the economy. That's a good thing.


Following this logic we should possibly offer more Social Security payments to every one to keep our economy stimulated .


Yes, that's the idea. Just as the health insurance question could be solved with Medicare for everyone--getting rid of the insurance companies for everyone's basic care--Social Security for everyone would ensure all Americans received sufficient funds to live. Yes, a subsistence wage for everyone, regardless of wealth, income, or work status. Everyone.

America is an amazing place and an economic giant. Those who are currently hoarding wealth accumulated it in part through the efforts of a lot of other people who don't share in it. But they should. We need to shake free a lot of that wealth and get it going back through the economy. By taxing wealth dramatically--not income, wealth--we can then distribute it throughout the economy and get it working. Say goodbye to welfare. Say goodbye to food "stamps." Say goodbye to the Wal-Mart effect, where the retailing behemoth (a) is the country's #1 recipient of food stamp-based spending by consumers and (b) has a very significant proportion of its workforce receiving food stamps because they don't make a living wage. (Food stamps they spend where? Wal-Mart.) Say goodbye to corporate welfare.

We have a wealth distribution problem in this country that now equals the Gilded Age. This "inheritocracy" entrenches a small class of elites, and their place is reinforced by low taxes, especially low inheritance taxes and low capital gains rates. They're just using the rest of us. This imbalance can't be--and shouldn't be--resolved with higher income tax rates. (They're both insufficient and counter-stimulative.) But there's no argument that the accumulation of wealth by the very wealthy in this country is very counter-stimulative, too. They don't invest in the economy. They don't create jobs. They just perpetuate the serfdom they've spent the last 40 years re-creating. Unless you're one of them, you can't possibly be in favor of that.
Rich Douglas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2155
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:07 pm

Re: US House Democrats try to [b]force[/b] immigration vote

Postby SteveFoerster » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:16 pm

Eric wrote:
Rich Douglas wrote:Am I mistaken in that one must have worked 40 quarters to earn full Social Security?

Regardless, Social Security payments are highly stimulative to the economy. That's a good thing.


Following this logic we should possibly offer more Social Security payments to every one to keep our economy stimulated .

Or just drop free cash from helicopters, which if nothing else would surely provide entertainment value.
BS, Information Systems concentration, Charter Oak State College
MA in Educational Technology Leadership, George Washington University
PhD in Leadership, U. of the Cumberlands (in progress)
More about me at my site
SteveFoerster
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2352
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:41 pm
Location: Northern Virginia & Dominica, West Indies

Re: US House Democrats try to[b] force[/b] immigration vote

Postby johann » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:26 pm

Eric wrote:I would lobby to add a new tax nation wide on Federal level, asking all non Citizens residing in USA to pay yearly non citizen resident tax.

Why should they pay extra taxes, Eric?

I've lived in Canada (legally) for over 60 years. I am not a Canadian citizen -- though even at this late date, I may change that.

As a legally-resident non-citizen, I have most of the same obligations and benefits as a Canadian citizen. The only thing I can't do is vote. I can legally work, pay taxes, get benefits - e.g. free health care etc. and qualify for two pensions - the one I got for turning 65 (minimum requirement is 10 years residence) and the one I paid into - the Canada Pension Plan, that all workers contribute to. And the basic pension can be paid to me anywhere in the world, if I leave Canada -something I have no plans to do. This is a great country and also a pretty safe place to live -- and my family is here.

The only other difference I know of - besides not voting - comes into play if I were to commit a really serious crime. Then, after I finished my sentence, I'd likely be deported to the UK. However, I don't think I'm gonna find myself back in Palmers Green any time soon... :)

I'm here legally. I pay into - and take out of - the system exactly as a citizen does - why would anyone want me to pay an additional tax? It makes no sense.

Johann
johann
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2289
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:12 pm
Location: Canada

Re: US House Democrats try to [b]force[/b] immigration vote

Postby johann » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:47 pm

I forgot -- I guess I can't run for political office either -- but that doesn't bother me. If it did, I could change things. All I have to do is apply, show my (immigration) docs etc., read a government-authored book or two and wait my turn to see a Citizenship Judge.... I believe at my age, I don't even have to do the written test any more, not that one would scare me.

Johann
johann
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2289
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:12 pm
Location: Canada

Re: US House Democrats try to [b]force[/b] immigration vote

Postby Eric » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:25 am

Johann,
If people are not citizens of their country of residence then they are as I see not fully committed. They can avoid been drafted at time of war or do Jury duty.
I think every one should become citizen of the country of their residence in order to enjoy the same level of responsibilities and benefits.

I would make an exception to legal residents who as a thanks giving to the country that took them in, paid such a tax for 14 years.
I would like to see undocumented immigrant who came here for better life, be allowed to work here for 7 years as in Bible, pay gratitude tax and start their way to
legal resident status, 2 years temporary resident with right to work and reside in US, followed by 5 years as permanent resident. Following another 7 years to fully apply to Citizenship.
The tax money if not stolen or wasted by politicians, should be directed toward schools, teachers, hospitals, and other services such as Law enforcement , Fire Department etc.
Eric

"The best social program is a good job,"
President Ronald Reagan
Eric
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1484
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:07 am
Location: UK / USA

Re: US House Democrats try to [b]force[/b] immigration vote

Postby Rich Douglas » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:23 pm

Or we could look past our national borders and consider ourselves citizens of the world, or even the universe. That would render moot these minor distinctions.
Rich Douglas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2155
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:07 pm

Re: US House Democrats try to [b]force[/b] immigration vote

Postby Rich Douglas » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:36 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Eric wrote:
Rich Douglas wrote:Am I mistaken in that one must have worked 40 quarters to earn full Social Security?

Regardless, Social Security payments are highly stimulative to the economy. That's a good thing.


Following this logic we should possibly offer more Social Security payments to every one to keep our economy stimulated .

Or just drop free cash from helicopters, which if nothing else would surely provide entertainment value.


For awhile, until people had enough cash and didn't need any more.

Depending on which calculations you use, there is about $400,000 of wealth per capita in the U.S. Yet many of our citizens have negative wealth. Why? Aren't they participants in this thing called the "United States"? Why can't they have more of it? Please don't say it's because they didn't earn it; the majority of wealth held in this nation wasn't earned by the owners of it. It was either inherited, or it was wealth making more wealth, or both. The fact is, the people who work hardest in this nation share the least in its bounty.

The other issue is humanitarian. By providing basic safety net of income and health care (okay, let's toss in education and training, too), we ensure the dignity of all. Or, at least, the availability of such dignity for the having. And we can do it, too, and still maintain an incentive for those who can earn more to do so.

The last time we had such an accumulation of wealth at the top of society, it all came tumbling down. The result was a government stepping in to create conditions allowing for much greater wealth distribution and the construction of the middle class. I'd like to see that again, but this time without the world wars and Great Depression. As a democratic society, we can use a representative government to bring about a social structure healthy for all. Or we can just leave the capitalists utterly unfettered, buying a complicit government that is by and for them, not the people. It's our call.
Rich Douglas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2155
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:07 pm

Re: US House Democrats try to [b]force[/b] immigration vote

Postby Eric » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:54 pm

Rich Douglas wrote:Or we could look past our national borders and consider ourselves citizens of the world, or even the universe. That would render moot these minor distinctions.


That will be a possibility if all borders removed, maybe including personal.
Starting by letting people share in your home.
Start living in your or my house. Speak the same language? Have common currency and all have one constitution.
Basically OWO, one government etc.

I don't think this is will work for many reasons.
You worked hard to build what you got, would you share it with a person who didn't work hard, or even didn't want to work hard, just came and claimed your hard work as his/her entitlement.

The what about religion. Muslims as Jews believe that whole Earth belongs to G-d and that G-d takes and gives the land based on the people way of life. For God they get rewarded for evil they get punished.

They wou;d like Shria law all over the world. This is the OWG they are willing to be part of.
Eric

"The best social program is a good job,"
President Ronald Reagan
Eric
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1484
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:07 am
Location: UK / USA

Next

Return to Off-topic Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron