Rev. Fred Phelps dying

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Rev. Fred Phelps dying

Postby nosborne48 » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:27 pm

May he go to the place he tried so hard to consign others to.

Phelps is lucky...as far as I am concerned, if I believed in Hell it would last no more than twelve months. I am not cursing him with eternal damnation of the Christian variety.
Una cosa mala nunca muere.
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Re: Rev. Fred Phelps dying

Postby Jimmy » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:41 pm

He's been ill for a while. While I don't believe in a literal Hell myself, I have always believed in "Just Retribution for Sin" and he will certainly receive his just rewards.
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Re: Rev. Fred Phelps dying

Postby johann » Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:52 pm

I'm pretty sure Phelps would have gone to jail, if he'd publicly made his many horrible utterances in Canada. We have hate-speech laws here - and I'm all for them, even if they contravene the free-speech concerns of the predominantly American posters here. Freedom to hurt people viciously in the way Phelps did is not a freedom I'd enshrine or protect, in Canada.

All the same - I wonder how much good a hate-speech law such as ours really does. All it does at best is remove the hater from his audience, for a while - and possibly (at worst) harden his resolve. Someone like Phelps deserves worse than jail. I don't think he will get what I feel he deserves, here or in the hereafter. And I'm confused, as to whether that's a good or a bad thing, on balance.

Colour me shaking my head.

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Re: Rev. Fred Phelps dying

Postby Rich Douglas » Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:04 am

He's done more good for gay rights than harm. That said, everything he did publicly was harmful. And mean.

The business about him about to die is from an estranged son, right? So take it with a grain of salt. I'll wait for the "Deather" movement to require the long from of his death certificate.
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Re: Rev. Fred Phelps dying

Postby Jimmy » Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:29 pm

I struggle with the "hate speech" idea. I never believed words hurt others unless they choose to let the words hurt them. This is one reason I always liked Albert Ellis' "Three Must's" thinking error work. Of course in this day of teenage bullying much work on these thinking errors is needed to help avoid suicides among that population as the personality doesn't fully develop until one is 18 and the brain doesn't fully develop until one is 25.
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Re: Rev. Fred Phelps dying

Postby Rich Douglas » Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:35 pm

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Re: Rev. Fred Phelps dying

Postby levicoff » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:58 pm

Rich Douglas wrote:"I'm not dead, yet."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grbSQ6O6kbs

A classic scene, but I prefer the musical version from Spamalot.

The Broadway version of "I'm not dead, yet:" posting.php?mode=quote&f=6&p=72983

That version was shot by a cell phone (common for Broadway shows). For a better, more clear version, here's a high school production of the same show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE1etS0E1p8
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Re: Rev. Fred Phelps dying

Postby johann » Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:36 pm

Impeccable and discriminating musical taste, as always, Dr. Levicoff. :) Yet again, I am humbled and in your debt, sir.

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Re: Rev. Fred Phelps dying

Postby Rich Douglas » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:23 pm

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Re: Rev. Fred Phelps dying

Postby johann » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:24 pm

One down. How many to go? :(

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Re: Rev. Fred Phelps dying

Postby johann » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:29 pm

Jimmy wrote:I struggle with the "hate speech" idea. I never believed words hurt others unless they choose to let the words hurt them.

I don't struggle with it at all, Jimmy. I believe implicitly that words do hurt many people - just like knives, or bullets. I don't think most "choose" to let bullets or knives hurt. The most severely traumatized (by words) many times end their lives in suicide. Others live but are severely and permanently affected. Some get off with nicks, creases or a graze. It boils down to how bad the verbal attack and how vulnerable the victim of words is, by makeup -- not choice.

My two cents - from experience and observation. It's far from trifling, or something most victims can be expected to shrug off. That's like being told to "snap out of" severe clinical depression. :sad:

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Re: Rev. Fred Phelps dying

Postby Rich Douglas » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:53 am

Has a cause of death been announced? I'd check his t-cell count. Just sayin'.... :twisted:
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Re: Rev. Fred Phelps dying

Postby Jimmy » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:39 am

johann wrote:
Jimmy wrote:I struggle with the "hate speech" idea. I never believed words hurt others unless they choose to let the words hurt them.

I don't struggle with it at all, Jimmy. I believe implicitly that words do hurt many people - just like knives, or bullets. I don't think most "choose" to let bullets or knives hurt. The most severely traumatized (by words) many times end their lives in suicide. Others live but are severely and permanently affected. Some get off with nicks, creases or a graze. It boils down to how bad the verbal attack and how vulnerable the victim of words is, by makeup -- not choice.

My two cents - from experience and observation. It's far from trifling, or something most victims can be expected to shrug off. That's like being told to "snap out of" severe clinical depression. :sad:

Johann


Comparing bullets and knives to words is like comparing apples to oranges. Allowing words to dictate one's thoughts and feelings is giving power to the other person.
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Re: Rev. Fred Phelps dying

Postby nosborne48 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:32 pm

That's true, Jimmy, unless the words incite others to take action. Hate speech does that and where hate is pervasive hate speech helps cement social attitudes and justify violence in the defense of the hate based ideas. This country is gradually becoming less homophobic but we aren't there yet. Phelps' demonstrations of God-justified hate could inspire others to behave the same way.

How else could a lynching be possible?

Phelps' case seems odd to me given his earlier history. He began his professional life as a lawyer doing civil rights work for African Americans. If he avoids the Inferno it will be because of the good he did back then. He was disbarred for brutal and dishonest treatment of a witness I gather.

I doubt that there will be an autopsy but I'd love to know if he had a brain tumor. Or was closeted himself?
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Re: Rev. Fred Phelps dying

Postby SteveFoerster » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:42 pm

Jimmy wrote:Comparing bullets and knives to words is like comparing apples to oranges. Allowing words to dictate one's thoughts and feelings is giving power to the other person.

There is that, but more importantly, it's very foolish to believe that if those in government have the power to regulate the expression of opinions that in the long run they'll only use it regulate hate speech.
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