GOP plumbs new depths of wacko

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Re: Ted Nugent

Postby Rich Douglas » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:49 pm

Jimmy wrote:Sarah Palin is no racist and her record as Governor of Alaska proves that.


WHAT? I'm not saying she was a racist governor, but I would also have to say that the role of being Alaska's governor wouldn't prove that one way or another. Alaska? Really?
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Re: GOP plumbs new depths of wacko

Postby Rich Douglas » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:00 am

Jimmy wrote:
Rich Douglas wrote:I don't want her to be President, either. But she's going to be.


May I quote you on that? History just doesn't favor two back-to-back same party presidents with only minor exceptions.


Huh?

Madison followed Jefferson
Monroe followed Madison
JQ Adams followed Monroe
Van Buren followed Jackson
Fillmore followed Taylor
Buchanan followed Pierce
Hayes followed Grant
Garfield followed Hayes
Taft followed T. Roosevelt
Hoover followed Coolidge
Bush followed Reagan

Those are just the ones who made a natural transition from a President from their own party. It excludes those who followed because of death or resignation, but probably should include those who succeeded under those circumstances and went on to get elected in their own right (TR, Truman, etc.)

So, it has happened a lot. But what doesn't happen as much is a 2-term President followed by another 2-term President from the same party. Since 1900, that's happened exactly zero times.
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Re: GOP plumbs new depths of wacko

Postby Jimmy » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:55 am

I know you didn't say she was a racist and didn't mean to imply that. Regarding the other issue, I think 11 times in our history is minor but that's a matter of opinion, I guess. It will be an interesting election. I wouldn't be surprised if two dark horses emerge from the conventions.
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Re: GOP plumbs new depths of wacko

Postby nosborne48 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:25 pm

I hope so.
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Re: GOP plumbs new depths of wacko

Postby Rich Douglas » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:11 pm

Jimmy wrote:I know you didn't say she was a racist and didn't mean to imply that. Regarding the other issue, I think 11 times in our history is minor but that's a matter of opinion, I guess. It will be an interesting election. I wouldn't be surprised if two dark horses emerge from the conventions.


Like who? The Democrats are going to get in line behind Clinton. If she doesn't run, it's a free-for-all since Biden isn't an automatic choice.

The GOP? I'd like to know who could run the Tea Party gamut, survive the extremely right-leaning primaries, and emerge as someone mainstream America can get behind. It will have to be someone who can do Romney's Etch-a-Sketch thing, but better. Good enough to actually prevail? That's another matter.
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Re: GOP plumbs new depths of wacko

Postby nosborne48 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:39 am

It's awfully early yet to commit to running in a 2016 general election. I'd be surprised if most Democrats had heard of Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter or Barack Obama this early in the process.

Of course, EVERYBODY had heard of Mitt Romney!
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Re: GOP plumbs new depths of wacko

Postby Rich Douglas » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:42 am

nosborne48 wrote:It's awfully early yet to commit to running in a 2016 general election. I'd be surprised if most Democrats had heard of Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter or Barack Obama this early in the process.

Of course, EVERYBODY had heard of Mitt Romney!


Clinton and Obama were known because both had been keynote speakers at their respective, previous DNC conventions. Carter, not so much.
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Re: GOP plumbs new depths of wacko

Postby SteveFoerster » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:26 pm

Rich Douglas wrote:Clinton and Obama were known because both had been keynote speakers at their respective, previous DNC conventions. Carter, not so much.

And Carter ran for president forty years ago. Things change.
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Re: GOP plumbs new depths of wacko

Postby Rich Douglas » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:30 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Rich Douglas wrote:Clinton and Obama were known because both had been keynote speakers at their respective, previous DNC conventions. Carter, not so much.

And Carter ran for president forty years ago. Things change.


They really do. It is hard to imagine a guy like Carter flying under the radar in the Internet Age.
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Watching Brewer Squirm

Postby nosborne48 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:22 pm

I am SOOO enjoying this!

The Arizona Legislature, bless their shriveled little GOP hearts, passed SB 1062 called the Religious Freedom Law that allows businesses to discriminate against gays on the basis of the business owners' religious convictions.

On the ONE hand, if Brewer signs the bill, the GOP business base will join the Democrats' howls of condemnation about hate-based descrimination (which, after all, is fundamentally what the bill is intended to protect). On the OTHER hand, if she vetos it, she will be vetoing "Religious Freedom".

HeeHeeHee. Couldn't happen to a nicer Governor! :twisted:
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Re: GOP plumbs new depths of wacko

Postby SteveFoerster » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:26 pm

I saw that. Not that seem to be interested in anything more than grandstanding, but I'd think this would be more of a freedom of association argument. Oh well.
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Re: GOP plumbs new depths of wacko

Postby nosborne48 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:36 pm

Freedom of association was one of the basic arguments against the Civil Rights Acts which barred discrimination on basis of race.

Your point is interesting because if the Governor signs the bill, someone is sure to sue to have it found unconstitutional. The Court will be FORCED to do what the Supreme Court in U.S. v. Windsor went to great lengths to AVOID doing; declaring people with same-sex orientation as a protected class.

Once that happens, no State will be permitted to bar same-sex marriages.

Someone once said that the common law works itself clean. I think that means that our law develops toward consistency and conformity with the constitution. In this case, the process will be hastened by the very people who want so badly to keep it from happening.

I say again: HeeHeeHee! :twisted:
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Re: GOP plumbs new depths of wacko

Postby Roald » Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:24 pm

Freedom of association does not typically apply to businesses which are open to the public. It's more likely to apply to a private club or political organization whose members are concerned that their protected message is going to be abrogated if they are forced to accept members who don't agree with the message.

Think of a VFW chapter being forced to accept communists, who then use the VFW meetings as a platform to promote anti-American propaganda. Something like that.

A coffee shop or hamburger stand enjoys no such protection. They aren't promoting a message, they are simply selling wares.

This is a guaranteed loser for the GOP. There are elements within that party that are determined to render themselves obsolete.
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Re: GOP plumbs new depths of wacko

Postby nosborne48 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:52 pm

But as I say, in order to get there, sexual orientation will have to be declared a suspect classification.

Governor Brewer has said that she's in no hurry to decide the fate of the bill. I don't blame her for that but there's a clock ticking away. Not to decide is to decide, though off hand I don't know whether there's a pocket veto possibility. If there is, that's what I would do.

Failing that, I would veto and stand by for heavy rolls. But it really is a no-win situation for her.

(snicker)
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Re: GOP plumbs new depths of wacko

Postby nosborne48 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:03 pm

Article V Section 7 of the Arizona Constitution says:

"If any bill be not returned within five days after it shall have been presented to the governor (Sunday excepted) such bill hall become a law in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the legislature by its final adjournment prevents its return, in which case it shall be filed with his objections in the office of the secretary of state within ten days after such adjournment Sundays excepted) or become a law as provided in this constitution. After the final action by the governor, or following the adoption of a bill notwithstanding his objection, it shall be filed with the secretary of state."

The way I read this is that there is no "pocket veto". If the Governor fails to sign or veto a bill within five days while the Legislature is in session, the bill becomes a law. The only difference when the Legislature has adjourned is that the Governor has ten days after adjournment to veto the bill or it becomes a law.

So Governor Brewer can "let nature take its course" or she can veto but she can't pocket veto. :mrgreen:
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