University of Metaphysics

Discussions on the value or merit of unaccredited programs and institutions.

Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby johann » Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:03 pm

Jack wrote:
johann wrote:Well said - exactly what I did and logic as to why I shouldn't have...with no personal judgment or "millist" accusations.


Yes, you're right. That's exactly what you did. You treated a degree mill as if it was a real school. You knowingly and deliberately spoke about a degree mill as if it was a real university. And that's exactly what I said in my post. Thanks for the validation.


I'll be civil here:

(1)No validation here for Jack - he has nothing to thank me for.
(2) I feel I did what HG said - not what Jack said. I'm no millist. Neither my encouraging Jimmy nor my later admission to HG will make me one.
(3)I never disputed the dubious (or less) value of the degrees themselves. Neglected (by choice) to be first to bring it up? Yes, guilty. OK?

If, after my prior admission to HG, anyone (save Jack) STILL has a problem with what I said - let them speak and I will respond -- civilly. Otherwise - this is getting silly - I'll not entertain further discussion especially of the name-calling variety.

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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby johann » Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:36 pm

Jimmy

I know this is a little off-topic, but sometimes I don't know how you come up with them - I LOVE that "Skepacabra" site-name you referred us to!

http://skepacabra.wordpress.com/2009/06 ... -sciences/

"Cabra" being Spanish for "goat" and all, I thought for a minute that maybe one of our prominent members (G.G.) might have had a hand in naming it! :)

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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby johann » Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:48 pm

"I graduated from New York University’s Gallatin School of Individualized Study. I also hold a Masters Degree in Media Studies from New School University.

If you were wondering what the name, Skepacabra means, it’s the name I’ve assigned to Chupacabra’s skeptical cousin. Chupacabra or “Goat-Sucker,” is a legendary Latin-American crypto-zoological creature that mysteriously turns up now and again to attack and drink the blood of livestock. And every once and a while someone reports having seen it. He’s kinda like the Latin-American Bigfoot. So Skepacabra is the skeptical response to Chupacabra and other paranormal or just plain weird claims."


From the Blog-Meister on the Skepacabra site. Explains a lot. :)

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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby nosborne48 » Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:28 pm

If I had named the site, it would be "-ron" rather than "-ra" when describing New Age hucksters. :evil:
Una cosa mala nunca muere.
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby Hungry Ghost » Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:47 pm

Jimmy wrote:Everyone has an opinion and the credibility of someone with only one post is laughable.


It doesn't matter how many posts somebody makes. They are always just going to be words on a screen. They stand or fall on their merits.

Here's an opinion on the University of Metaphysical Sciences being a scam and fraud.


I don't think that the University of Metaphysics is any less a scam and a fraud than the University of Metaphysical Sciences.

The University of Metaphysics is playing precisely the same back-door to counseling practice game that the U. of Metaphysical Sciences plays. They have a very similar 'legalities' page that argues that the separation of church and state protects what are ostensibly pastoral counselors from any government regulation:

http://www.metaphysics.com/prospectus/l ... hysics.htm

The U. of Metaphysics runs its own spurious 'professional association', the American Metaphysical Doctors Association.

http://www.metaphysics.com/prospectus/a ... iation.htm

Here's their 'What your doctoral title can do for you' page:

http://www.metaphysics.com/prospectus/d ... hysics.htm

Immediately you are established as a true professional in the field of Holistic, New Thought Metaphysics. Many people practicing today have a ministerial status but very few have a doctoral degree...

Your degree serves you well, should you write a book, give public lectures, etc. because you will be received as a "Doctor" of your subject. In many instances, along these lines or others that you might wish to pursue, your title of "Doctor" alone could make the difference between dismal failure and glowing success.

Your degree gives you dignity in practicing counseling, since people going to see a counselor tend to think of it as "seeing their Doctor."


That's almost exactly what the U. of Metaphysical Sciences says when they are extolling the advanges of graduates advertising themselves as "doctors".

Both schools offer their own "ordinations" along with students' "doctorates", since clergy status is basic to the whole scheme.

http://www.metaphysics.com/prospectus/h ... rates-.htm
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby vinny123 » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:00 pm

Hungry Ghost: "It doesn't matter how many posts somebody makes. They are always just going to be words on a screen. They stand or fall on their merits".


Vinny: So when you make outrageous assertions regarding the ulterior motives of Social Workers in marketing their practices in devious ways in order to make money or when you make negative stereotypical comparisons regarding a Jewish affiliated school, Touro College, engaging with the same tactics you claim the israelis' use to obtain assistance from the US Government, do these posts serve as examples that "...stand or FALL on their merits"? I think they not only fell but went over the precipice! :roll:
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby Jack » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:29 am

johann wrote:
Jack wrote:
johann wrote:Well said - exactly what I did and logic as to why I shouldn't have...with no personal judgment or "millist" accusations.


Yes, you're right. That's exactly what you did. You treated a degree mill as if it was a real school. You knowingly and deliberately spoke about a degree mill as if it was a real university. And that's exactly what I said in my post. Thanks for the validation.


I'll be civil here:

(1)No validation here for Jack - he has nothing to thank me for.
(2) I feel I did what HG said - not what Jack said. I'm no millist. Neither my encouraging Jimmy nor my later admission to HG will make me one.
(3)I never disputed the dubious (or less) value of the degrees themselves. Neglected (by choice) to be first to bring it up? Yes, guilty. OK?

If, after my prior admission to HG, anyone (save Jack) STILL has a problem with what I said - let them speak and I will respond -- civilly. Otherwise - this is getting silly - I'll not entertain further discussion especially of the name-calling variety.

I'm glad that you (finally) said the words. This "school" is not a school at all. It's true that you might learn something in one of their "courses" but you might also learn something (more) from a quiet afternoon in the public library. And that doesn't equal a degree either. As for all this talk about civility, I have no idea why this has come up. No one has been uncivil. Unless, in this age of extreme political correctness, it has become uncivil to confront someone with their own words.
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby mineralhh » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:38 am

UoM is an mill, nothing romantic or fancy about it. They sell degrees. And they will happily bundle all degrees from bachelor's to phd in one handy package for one handy price to decrease shipping costs, how nice of them. And where mills as Hamilton back in its days required you to at least read *one* scientific book, you do not learn *anything* here that could be considered scientific. I wonder when the operators will start the "University of John Grisham" and give out phds for further fiction reading.

Guys, there is a reason why metaphysics is not taught at any university on a degree level, it's because it is not scientific. This is not to say, that it might not be interesting, but so is fishing or John Grisham books - however there is not the slightest relation to higher ed.

It is strange (carefully speaking) to see folks participating in a forum like this for years (!!) and have them support mill operators at the same time. What comes next? Any other private interests you intend to buy a degree in?
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby Jimmy » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:12 pm

mineralhh wrote:...Guys, there is a reason why metaphysics is not taught at any university on a degree level, it's because it is not scientific...


This has to be the dumbest statement I have ever seen on here. Literature, philosophy, art, religion, etc. are not scientific and they are taught in the universities. :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby Hungry Ghost » Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:37 pm

mineralhh wrote:UoM is an mill, nothing romantic or fancy about it. They sell degrees. And they will happily bundle all degrees from bachelor's to phd in one handy package for one handy price to decrease shipping costs, how nice of them.


What I dislike most about both of these schools is that they seem designed to help graduates sell themselves to the general public as "counselors", mental health professionals in effect.

If they just stuck to teaching doubtful religious doctrines, then I'd have less objection. Lots of schools already do that. I might even applaud them for broadening the range of doctrines being taught, provided that they taught the material credibly and well. Unfortunately, it doesn't really look like either of them does that.

Guys, there is a reason why metaphysics is not taught at any university on a degree level, it's because it is not scientific.


That's not entirely true. I don't know of any stand-alone metaphysics departments or degree programs at accredited schools, but the subject is widely taught as a specialization within philosophy doctoral programs. It seems that New York University is (arguably) the top philosophy department in the English speaking world in metaphysics. MIT is one of the top four.

http://www.philosophicalgourmet.com/bre ... kdown3.asp

Of course these program rankings are referring to what professional philosophers understand by the word 'metaphysics', which isn't necessarily what the general public understands by that word. It has almost no resemblance to what the U. of Metaphysics and the U. of Metaphysical Sciences are doing.

It is strange (carefully speaking) to see folks participating in a forum like this for years (!!) and have them support mill operators at the same time.


In my own defense, I can only say that I've expressed considerable skepticism about these things in all of the posts that I've made in this thread. But yeah, I was struck by exactly the same thing that you were.

The people who like these schools need to provide some reasons why others with similar esoteric interests might want to like them too. If anyone wants other people to take these schools seriously, then they need to be defended in the face of skepticism. I see very few redeeming qualities in either of them at this point, but I might be mistaken.
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby vinny123 » Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:42 pm

[quote="johann"][quote="Jack"][quote="johann"]
Well said - exactly [u]what I did [/u]and logic as to [u]why I shouldn't have[/u]...with no personal judgment or "millist" accusations.[/quote]

Yes, you're right. That's exactly what you did. You treated a degree mill as if it was a real school. You knowingly and deliberately spoke about a degree mill as if it was a real university. And that's exactly what I said in my post. Thanks for the validation.[/quote]

[b]I'll be civil here:[/b]

(1)No validation here for Jack - he has nothing to thank me for.
(2) I feel I did what HG said - not what Jack said. I'm no millist. Neither my encouraging Jimmy nor my later admission to HG will make me one.
(3)I never disputed the dubious (or less) value of the degrees themselves. Neglected (by choice) to be first to bring it up? Yes, guilty. OK?

[b] If, after my prior admission to HG, anyone (save Jack) STILL has a problem with what I said - let them speak and I will respond -- civilly. Otherwise - this is getting silly - I'll not entertain further discussion [u]especially of the name-calling variety[/u].[/b]

Johann[/quote]


Johann, Can you imagine that Jack was a moderator on another distance education forum and how he conducted himself in that role? Not very civilly or objectively but insistent and vindictive towards those with whom he disagreed, the same qualities he manifests on this board. :roll:
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby Hungry Ghost » Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:22 pm

For a look at how philosophers use the word 'metaphysics', see the article on metaphysics in the extraordinary (and constantly growing) online 'Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy'.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/metaphysics/
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby Jimmy » Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:40 pm

Hungry Ghost wrote:For a look at how philosophers use the word 'metaphysics', see the article on metaphysics in the extraordinary (and constantly growing) online 'Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy'.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/metaphysics/



Thanks H.G., very informative.
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby mineralhh » Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:03 pm

So the bottom line of this thread is:

*If the study subject is of interest to the student, it is perfectly acceptable to buy a degree from a mill as long as there are good reasons for it such as that the subject is "beautifully presented".

*Let's also add, that it is by now fine to financially support the mill operator so that he can carry on with his business.

Plain outstanding logic - I think then all of us (including Robert Hill and the folks at DLT) are perfectly aligned :oops:
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby Jack » Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:07 am

Posts have been made to this thread that have been disappeared.
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