University of Metaphysics

Discussions on the value or merit of unaccredited programs and institutions.

Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby johann » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:44 pm

Jack wrote:I know what you're saying but here's the piece that you forgot. There are lots of people who read these threads who don't know you or me or Steve or Jimmy. They just read the thread and subsequently come away with the idea that this is actually a respected degree program. It's not.


I forgot nothing, Jack. I was just having a little joke with Jimmy, Steve et al. Sorry you didn't like it. HG had already covered the part about the spooflicate nature (my term) of the "degrees" here:

"So, here's the question -- is there anything that might persuade other people to think that a doctoral degree from the University of Metaphysics is a meaningful academic credential? I have to say that right now, as things stand, I don't believe that this school's degrees are credible. Maybe I'm wrong."

When this forum is a mixture - exchange of ideas, free discussion and differing viewpoints, it's at its best. When it's not, it's not.

I'll rephrase one of your sentences: "They just read the thread and come away with the idea that everything they read here is GOSPEL and that this forum is actually designed as an instruction manual. It's not."

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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby Jack » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:00 am

johann wrote:Hi

I've corresponded with others who have attended this school, Jimmy, and all had good impressions and agreed they were learning about what they really wanted to know. I found this remark on the school's site to be very interesting:

"...we rely on our unblemished reputation of nearly half a century. In all that time, there has never been one complaint or action filed against any of the University System’s institutions or organizations."

They make this type of knowledge available at a price affordable by most or all who seek it.

50 years with no complaints -- that's a stellar record, all right - for any school - accredited or not!

Johann



Johann - I'm glad that your memory is not impaired. Maybe my own sense of humor is impaired but I can't tell which part of this post is "joking with Jimmy." Can you help me with that part? You're clearly promoting this degree mill. How's your memory now?
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby SteveFoerster » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:12 am

Jimmy wrote:UOM is what each person percieves it to be, I guess.

Ah, but is it what each person perceives it to be, or is it what it is regardless of what people decide about it?

Hey, metaphysics, right? ;)

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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby Jack » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:34 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Jimmy wrote:UOM is what each person percieves it to be, I guess.

Ah, but is it what each person perceives it to be, or is it what it is regardless of what people decide about it?

Hey, metaphysics, right? ;)

-=Steve=-


The irony here is that metaphysics (the first definition) is the section of Philosophy that deals with "reality." That other "occult" metaphysics is way down in the list of definitions of that word. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/metaphysics. The reality is that this school is not real. And if anyone wants to believe the claim, "50 years and no complaints," then I have a very nice bridge I'd like to sell to them. Every business and every university has complaints made against them every year. If there are no complaints filed against this entity it's just because they make sure that the diploma states exactly what the buyer requests before it is printed.
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby johann » Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:55 pm

"Johann - I'm glad that your memory is not impaired. Maybe my own sense of humor is impaired but I can't tell which part of this post is "joking with Jimmy." Can you help me with that part? You're clearly promoting this degree mill. How's your memory now?" -Jack

My memory is fine, Jack. As you fully realize, My "joking with Jimmy et al." is in the other post - "Dr. Steve - we didn't say nuthin' because it's Jimmy, etc..."

I said those things you quoted because I've found them to be true. I've known people who decided to go there - not because the school awarded "doctorates" which are clearly worthless as such, but because the school offered to teach material they really wanted to know more about --- as in Jimmy's case. I've never heard from a student who had a bad experience there. Their "doctorates" became wall-hangers, nothing else. If the school's instruction is "real" enough for my correspondents --and Jimmy -- it's OK by me if they want to go there.

Something you should know about my memory, Jack. I have very little to brag about -- but my memory is said to be phenomenal. (It certainly served me well for 30 years of bill-collecting!) When I was around 60, I had some psych tests done. (Voluntarily - no dispute about my long years of confirmed craziness!) My memory was extensively tested at that time and I was told I had the best memory of 5,000-odd people (of all ages) tested.

If the school appears to teach what people want to know - at a reasonable cost - then it is not my job to decry it as a "mill." Make it yours if you want - but don't slag me for not being "properly" sanctimonious and waggling my finger.Furthermore, If some nitwit - whether in Ohio or Oceania wants to send five or ten years' savings to some REAL crap school, then I refuse to feel guilty, whatever I said -or if I said nothing. You can take the guilt-bullet if you like. If some credulous cretin - anywhere - parts with serious money due to one internet thread - then that cretin deserves to lose his/her money!

If someone ASKS - sure, tell them you think their prospective school is a mill. No problem. But the enquirer has often made up his/her mind already.Your reward will often be a seven-page thread of bogus refutation: "if the school is no good, why did Prof. Dr. Sir So-and-so give an honorary degree to Prof. Blank from a prestigious American school?"

If you're looking for "dirt" on this school - go searching. "Dirt" on some less-than-forthcoming "doctorate"-holders is available. You might (or might not) enjoy this.

203.152.114.11/decisions/04/04380.rtf

I just don't appreciate

(1) aspersions against my memory. (Intelligence -OK. Memory - off limits!)
(2) being told what I should say or think.

Enjoy your day. Here in the trailer park, looks like th'old houn'dog has got hisself caught under the porch again. Gotta go rescue "Ol' Booger!" :)

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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby johann » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:38 pm

And Jack...

My memory is such that I also realize (without looking it up) that about two or three years back I apologized to you when I was soundly castigated (wow- that hurt :) )for this same old "sin" - NOT taking into account possible misinterpretation by overseas or unsophisticated readers.

Times (and my thinking) have changed. My opinion now: If anybody - from anywhere - bases a significant financial commitment on one internet remark (or absence of same) they need a head-doctor- not "guidance." :(

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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby Jack » Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:02 am

Johann - Let me be clear about two things. 1) I don't care about your memory. Your memory can be as sharp as a razor or as dull as dirt and it doesn't matter to me. If you want to get your knickers in a twist over such an issue then just go right ahead and start twisting. 2) As far as I'm concerned, you're just doing that "duck,dodge, hide" thing to try to get away from the fact that YOU ARE PROMOTING A DEGREE MILL.
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby Hungry Ghost » Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:02 pm

Jack wrote:I know what you're saying but here's the piece that you forgot. There are lots of people who read these threads who don't know you or me or Steve or Jimmy. They just read the thread and subsequently come away with the idea that this is actually a respected degree program. It's not.


I agree with Jack on that. It's important that Degreediscussion treat schools consistently. We shouldn't be seen as smiling approvingly upon the most doubtful things just because a board favorite happens to become involved with them.
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby Jimmy » Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:18 pm

Hungry Ghost wrote:...I agree with Jack on that. It's important that Degreediscussion treat schools consistently. We shouldn't be seen as smiling approvingly upon the most doubtful things just because a board favorite happens to become involved with them.


While I am in total agreement with H.G. here, I still think we need to keep our posts civil. For a long, long time the discussions on here educational, informative, and insightful sans the vitriol. Lately, I am seeing a little of the vitriol return and I think it diminishes us or to quote Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., "It damages the personality and scars the soul."

Finally, no matter what is posted here, each potential student of any school is responsbile for his or her own decision.
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby ShotoJuku » Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:48 pm

Jack wrote:Johann - Let me be clear about two things. 1) I don't care about your memory. Your memory can be as sharp as a razor or as dull as dirt and it doesn't matter to me. If you want to get your knickers in a twist over such an issue then just go right ahead and start twisting. 2) As far as I'm concerned, you're just doing that "duck,dodge, hide" thing to try to get away from the fact that YOU ARE PROMOTING A DEGREE MILL.



Just remember the five D's of dodgeball: "Dodge", "Duck", "Dip", "Dive", and..."Dodge" ~ Patches O Houlihan :mrgreen:

BTW Jimmy - Thanks for the info on ATS. :)
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby johann » Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:14 pm

'I went to bed mean and woke up meaner" - Matt Dillon, U.S. Marshal

I love that line, Jimmy! Sure applies to me some days. :)

Hungry Ghost wrote:... It's important that Degreediscussion treat schools consistently. We shouldn't be seen as smiling approvingly upon the most doubtful things just because a board favorite happens to become involved with them.

Well said - exactly what I did and logic as to why I shouldn't have...with no personal judgment or "millist" accusations. Thanks.

Jimmy wrote:I still think we need to keep our posts civil. ....the vitriol... "It damages the personality and scars the soul."

I'll do my best.

Jimmy wrote:Finally, no matter what is posted here, each potential student of any school is responsbile for his or her own decision.


Yes indeed.

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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby doodah » Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:28 pm

I have to say University of Metaphysics is the worst possible metaphysics school a person can go to. As soon as I received all the course materials, I realized I'd made the wrong choice. I immediately sent all the materials back, requested a full refund, and then enrolled in University of Metaphysical Sciences which is ten times the school that UOM is. AT UOM, you get about $50 worth of xeroxed stuff and that's it. Nothing more. It equals basically a course on positive thinking and that's it, nothing else. There's no research, no different points of view, it was all written by one guy who's a dinosaur about to die and has a lot of old ideas about metaphysics, not the newest stuff, it's a joke. Talk about diploma mill. That is the correct term for it.
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby Jimmy » Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:45 am

doodah wrote:I have to say University of Metaphysics is the worst possible metaphysics school a person can go to. As soon as I received all the course materials, I realized I'd made the wrong choice. I immediately sent all the materials back, requested a full refund, and then enrolled in University of Metaphysical Sciences which is ten times the school that UOM is. AT UOM, you get about $50 worth of xeroxed stuff and that's it. Nothing more. It equals basically a course on positive thinking and that's it, nothing else. There's no research, no different points of view, it was all written by one guy who's a dinosaur about to die and has a lot of old ideas about metaphysics, not the newest stuff, it's a joke. Talk about diploma mill. That is the correct term for it.


Everyone has an opinion and the credibility of someone with only one post is laughable.

Here's an opinion on the University of Metaphysical Sciences being a scam and fraud.

http://ask.metafilter.com/56309/Metaphy ... -metafraud

And yet another,

http://skepacabra.wordpress.com/2009/06 ... l-sciences
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby Jack » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:39 pm

johann wrote:Well said - exactly what I did and logic as to why I shouldn't have...with no personal judgment or "millist" accusations.


Yes, you're right. That's exactly what you did. You treated a degree mill as if it was a real school. You knowingly and deliberately spoke about a degree mill as if it was a real university. And that's exactly what I said in my post. Thanks for the validation.
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Re: University of Metaphysics

Postby Hungry Ghost » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:43 pm

doodah wrote:I have to say University of Metaphysics is the worst possible metaphysics school a person can go to.


I'm not clear about how the word 'metaphysics' is being used here. I'm aware of how philosophers typically use the word, of Aristotle's text that later was given that title, and so on. In this case it seems to be a very different usage, something like 'anything that seems magical and cosmic'.

As soon as I received all the course materials, I realized I'd made the wrong choice. I immediately sent all the materials back, requested a full refund, and then enrolled in University of Metaphysical Sciences which is ten times the school that UOM is.


http://umsonline.org/AllAboutFAQums.htm

This one advertises in the kind of new agey publications that one finds being distributed for free in SF bay area cafes. I've always been very skeptical of it and don't believe that it's credible.

It's operated for many years out of Arcata California under a religious exemption that only allows it to award religious degree titles. Now it seems to be offering PhDs from a Minnesota address as well.

AT UOM, you get about $50 worth of xeroxed stuff and that's it. Nothing more. It equals basically a course on positive thinking and that's it, nothing else. There's no research, no different points of view, it was all written by one guy who's a dinosaur about to die and has a lot of old ideas about metaphysics, not the newest stuff, it's a joke. Talk about diploma mill. That is the correct term for it.


I'd use that phrase for both schools, tell you the truth.

The U. of Metaphysical Sciences claims "accreditation" from the American Association of Drugless Practitioners and from the American Alternative Medical Association.

http://umsonline.org/accred.htm

They assure us that this is "spiritual accreditation" and like the U. of M., insist that "secular accreditation" isn't appropriate for a "metaphysical" school.

As the "accreditors" names suggest, this school looks like it's trying to serve as the back-door to unlicensed quasi-clinical careers. That's become very common these days, though most of the schools doing this fly a "Biblical" flag.

Both schools also run "churches" and award their own "ordinations" as part of the package. Here's their page on the legalities of counseling and teaching.

http://www.umsonline.org/AllAboutMetaph ... lyWork.htm


They are careful to say that the counselors that they produce will be counseling on the basis of their ordinations, not on the basis of their doctorates. They assure us that this pastoral-counseling dodge is legal almost everywhere.

But the 'why earn a doctorate degree' page says (the misspelling of 'expertise' is in the original):

The primary reason to acquire a doctoral degree is to establish a professional image of yourself as a person well educated in your chosen area of experitise, which is metaphysics. Obtaining a doctorate shows a deeper level of commitment, education, and professionalism. Most people seek out a "doctor" when looking for a counselor, not necessarily a reverend or minister, even though a reverend or minister can legally counsel people. With Doctorate credentials behind your name, you establish yourself as a "doctor" and can list yourself as such in the phone directory with other counselors...

http://umsonline.org/AllAboutMetaphysic ... ebsite.htm

Here's the U. of Metaphysical Sciences' courses.

http://www.umsonline.org/coursedescriptions.htm

Somebody apparently has skimmed off what seem to be the "deeper" or more esoteric sounding concepts from a whole variety of traditions - 'archetypes' perhaps from Jung, 'mantras and mudras' from Indian tantricism, 'pranayama' from yogic breathing meditation, angels, auras, witchcraft, shamanism, channeling, crystals... and much more.

It looks like kind of a magical mystery mix-and-match, where somebody said 'Gee, that's cool!', maybe read a book about it, and then decided that they were qualified to teach it.

I'm rather friendly and open towards alternative religiosity, probably more so than anyone else on this board. But that means that that the integrity of trditions needs to be respected. In some cases, what this school teaches looks like little more than credulous superstition. In other cases there might be some interesting content underlying it, but it really needs to be learned in its historical and doctrinal context, from competent teachers.
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