Regarding Dr. Muhammad Schmidt and NationsUniversity

Discussions on the value or merit of unaccredited programs and institutions.

Re: Regarding Dr. Muhammad Schmidt and NationsUniversity

Postby Vice » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:31 pm

Bill wrote:
I was still teaching school-- and over 35 years four school districts paid me for my graduate coursework-- when I began the Unizul doctorate in 2001 at 61 years of age. During the last year with Unizul, I had retired. In 2005, at the age of 65, I received the DTh. The dissertational committee was composed of Drs. Pitchers,Greyling, and Smit, of THREE different public universities. I have their comments on the dissertation, and these comments were very positive! Dr. Derickson, of Corban College, who has his PhD from Dallas TS, also read the dissertation in 2005 and has told me that it is the equal of those required by Dallas.

Since 2005 I have lectured at the Sacramento branch of Western Seminary, presented a reading to the NW branch of Evangelical Theological Society, worked with Faith Seminary of Salem, been given two contracts with SATS, published three articles for the SATS journal, and co authored a book with H. Wayne House. I keep busy at 69 years of age with little time available to go fishing! But I feel so grateful for still being useful at my age.

If anyone questions the virtue or value of my formal training, I suggest they contact SATS, counter my three online articles, or contact House, Derickson, Pitchers, Smit, Greyling, Pitchers, De Young,Laney, and the Grossmont, Wasco ESD, Newberg, and Cascade school districts, OSU or Ahrendt, and USD.

Again, HG, thank you for your very kind comments.


These details do not change the fact that your doctorate and the procedure behind are not equivalent to the general standards of a doctorate in Europe because of the oral defense of your thesis missing. In these terms, it is a second-class doctorate. Period.
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Re: Regarding Dr. Muhammad Schmidt and NationsUniversity

Postby Vice » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:14 pm

Hungry Ghost wrote:
Seeing as how you are awarding your own advanced degrees in theology through your IFTS, your training in the subject that you teach does have some relevance, I guess. You seem to me to be largely self-taught in religion.
Self-taught? Then, you obviously know more than I do.

He doen't pretend to be the pope of any imaginary religious denomination.
Well, I will be in Haiti on a mission trip from July 23 on. I invite you to come there at your own expense and experience the "imaginary religious denomination" in real life action. But I must disappoint you - I am not coming as the "pope" there but at the invitation of a real church with real people in a diocese. It is "Christian Missionary Anglican Communion Haiti" with a branch of IFTS there. We are having a graduation ceremony there which I have been asked to attend. You would be welcome to attend that event as well. Most of the interaction will be in French, and if there are language problems for you, I may be able to help with translation as far as my time allows. You may also be present at the radio interview that the local leaders have requested me to do.
If evangelical exegesis was my thing (it isn't) I'd be eager to study with Bill Grover. Not because I could use his name to impress people, but because I sense that he could actually teach me the craft.
I have legitimate degrees and never misrepresented anything. Otherwise, you wouldn´t know as much as you actually do. - On the other hand, I agree with you as far as evangelical exegesis is concerned. It´s all "lower textual criticism" in line with conservative theology. Not my cup of tea. I was schooled in the tradition of "Higher Criticism" as far as exegetical matters are concerned. That is not necessarily "Bible-believing". Generally, there is no theological seminary education in Europe; all theological training is normally provided at Theological Faculties at state-run universities. Normally, all pastors/priests are university graduates and all of them have been schooled in the tradition of Higher Textual Criticism.

You have yet to explain the "Federal US States Law" that you assure your students validates and legitimizes the degrees that you award them. You can't very well applaud your own superior disputation prowess while you run from your own words on your own website.
I think I have done that. There is nothing else I could add. The details are on the website and I am telling everybody that is not (yet) have recognised accreditation. As IFTS is mainly a school for African students, we pursue our accreditation in Kenya according to the laws in that country. The interim university charter we have applied for has its own procedures and does not take any licenses from the US into account. And your statement that this practice is "legally doubtful" is too vague and only reflects your own opinion. Should I take that opinion as important as you wish it to be? No, I think not. There are several other religious schools doing the same what ICW does, and if all that was illegal or "legally doubtful", then that would have been known. For IFTS, this point anyway will become irrelevant in the foreseeable future as we will be granted an interim university charter by the Kenyan government soon. I can only repeat that I do not want to do anything illegal either knowingly or willingly.

[/quote]

Text in bold above is mine.
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Re: Regarding Dr. Muhammad Schmidt and NationsUniversity

Postby Bill » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:23 pm

Vice wrote:
Bill wrote:
I was still teaching school-- and over 35 years four school districts paid me for my graduate coursework-- when I began the Unizul doctorate in 2001 at 61 years of age. During the last year with Unizul, I had retired. In 2005, at the age of 65, I received the DTh. The dissertational committee was composed of Drs. Pitchers,Greyling, and Smit, of THREE different public universities. I have their comments on the dissertation, and these comments were very positive! Dr. Derickson, of Corban College, who has his PhD from Dallas TS, also read the dissertation in 2005 and has told me that it is the equal of those required by Dallas.

Since 2005 I have lectured at the Sacramento branch of Western Seminary, presented a reading to the NW branch of Evangelical Theological Society, worked with Faith Seminary of Salem, been given two contracts with SATS, published three articles for the SATS journal, and co authored a book with H. Wayne House. I keep busy at 69 years of age with little time available to go fishing! But I feel so grateful for still being useful at my age.

If anyone questions the virtue or value of my formal training, I suggest they contact SATS, counter my three online articles, or contact House, Derickson, Pitchers, Smit, Greyling, Pitchers, De Young,Laney, and the Grossmont, Wasco ESD, Newberg, and Cascade school districts, OSU or Ahrendt, and USD.

Again, HG, thank you for your very kind comments.


These details do not change the fact that your doctorate and the procedure behind are not equivalent to the general standards of a doctorate in Europe because of the oral defense of your thesis missing. In these terms, it is a second-class doctorate. Period.

----

Your details do not change the facts that (1) My doc is from an accredited university having the same accreditor of any SA university , (2) my doc is recognized by those individuals & institutions I've named, including profs from Stellenbosh and other SA unis(3) my doc has served me admirably well,(4) my doc is from the same uni as the docs of the founder and the principal of SATS , and, (5)that it is you, not I, who works for and promotes an unaccredited and unrecognized school which school an "icon" of Christian DE turned truck driver thinks is ridiculous -period. um..so, who's doing better? Me!-period!
Last edited by Bill on Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:37 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Bill Grover
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BA,(Bible),ThB -1966, SCTS
MA (Religion)- 1968, PL Naz Uni
Tea Creds USD (Lang Arts)-1969/OSU (Spec Ed)1978
MDiv (Equiv)-1992 and ThM (Biblical Studies)-1994, Western Seminary
D.Th. (Theology)-2005 Unizul
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Re: Regarding Dr. Muhammad Schmidt and NationsUniversity

Postby Stanislav » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:33 pm

Vice wrote:These details do not change the fact that your doctorate and the procedure behind are not equivalent to the general standards of a doctorate in Europe because of the oral defense of your thesis missing. In these terms, it is a second-class doctorate. Period.

Rephrasing: a South African state university degrees are deficient because they do not conform to an obscure European academic tradition. Sweet. For your own sake, I hope you do not exhibit your racist great-white-educator attitude in Kenya or Haiti, Your Grace. Or you prefer "Beatitude"?

P. S. I did have an oral dissertation defense in my doctoral program. It was not in Theology or Bible, but, apparently, neither was yours.
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Re: Regarding Dr. Muhammad Schmidt and NationsUniversity

Postby levicoff » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:38 pm

Vice wrote:Would it be correct to conclude from your latest input that you have no permanent address and are something like homeless?
I need to have more exact personal data to sue you.

Then find it. C'mon, sweetheart, it wouldn't hurt you to do your own research.

I can have your pathetic ass laughed out of any court of competent jurisdiction, but that doesn't mean I have to do your research for you. Get off your lazy butt and get it yourself. It only took a few keystrokes for Dr. Bear to point you in the right direction - if you can't do that yourself, filing a lawsuit would be legal suicide for you. But if that's what you want to do, go for it - I'm confident that the results will not only destroy you professionally, but may result in criminal charges against you.

As for your tirade against Bill Grover, give it a rest. You are not, and never will be, in his league, which is one reason that he has our respect around here and you don't.

Anyway, kids, a couple of miscellaneous observations . . .

Did'ya ever notice that guys with phony or questionable credentials are the first to call themselves "Doctor?" Those who have legitimatge credentials don't have to play that game. That's why John is John, Bill is Bill, and I'm Steve. Ol' Muhammad, however, felt the need to use his alleged title right in the subject line of this thread. But we've backed him into a proverbial corner and all he can do is strike out blindly.

And John, thanks for the reality check. It's true - of the current Top 10, I've never watched any of them. I do, however, remember quite a few from the 1959 list, which, I guess, shows how old I'm getting. :lol:

Finally, my previous suggestion stands: Stop feeding the troll. This thread is outliving its entertainment value, and as we have seen with numerous con artists in the past, only by ignoring them will they disappear. And Bill, you will never prove anything to this wazoo, and you don't need to prove anything to the rest of us.
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Re: Regarding Dr. Muhammad Schmidt and NationsUniversity

Postby mineralhh » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:49 pm

Some notes from the sideline to those who are actually interested in the topic:
1. Dr. Schmidt has legitimate credentials, including a doctoral degree and a habilitation, being the prerequisite to teach at a state-approved german university. His two theses have been published using the common publishers. As far as I could find out, he however has not taught as a regular professor at a german university.
2. Dr. Schmidt has done some publishing in magazines

However,
1. The self-reference "Dr. phil. Muhammad Schmidt, M..A., M.R.S. (NU/USA), Th.D. (ICW/USA)" is in violation with german laws, due to the unaccredited status of NU in Germany; this reference would need to be removed.
2. The magazines he published in are mostly non-peer-review-journals
3. All his current books are published via a "pay-to-play" publisher, that anyone can publish in, as long as the cheque arrives in time.

My personal summary: Dr. Schmidt has fine academic credentials. He however didn't make the step to full professor, so that he turned away from the legitimate academic landscape to the rather dubious wonders he now promotes.
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Re: Regarding Dr. Muhammad Schmidt and NationsUniversity

Postby Bill » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:00 pm

Thanks Steve. I'll try to answer his holiness, Dr. Muhammed , with a, "Sorry, feeding time for trolls is over."
Bill Grover
Faculty, http://www.satsonline.org
BA,(Bible),ThB -1966, SCTS
MA (Religion)- 1968, PL Naz Uni
Tea Creds USD (Lang Arts)-1969/OSU (Spec Ed)1978
MDiv (Equiv)-1992 and ThM (Biblical Studies)-1994, Western Seminary
D.Th. (Theology)-2005 Unizul
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Reality check

Postby g-gollin » Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:46 am

So a guy who has had a college named for him repeatedly posts drivel and threatens legal action, all the while keeping his identity concealed. ("ReamedOutLarry") As if the head of a real school would do something like that. Twit.
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Re: Regarding Dr. Muhammad Schmidt and NationsUniversity

Postby Vice » Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:52 am

mineralhh wrote:Some notes from the sideline to those who are actually interested in the topic:
1. Dr. Schmidt has legitimate credentials, including a doctoral degree and a habilitation, being the prerequisite to teach at a state-approved german university. His two theses have been published using the common publishers. As far as I could find out, he however has not taught as a regular professor at a german university.
The information given above is absolutely correct. I have worked at unis outside Germany in other European countries like Poland and overseas. In Germany, there had been no jobs for highly qualified people with a Ph.D and a habilitation. Therefore, many go somewhere else. So did I.
2. Dr. Schmidt has done some publishing in magazines
Not quite correct due to incomplete research - most publications include books by publishers including the famous and highly reputed Herder Publishers in Freiburg, Ullstein in Berlin, Buske in Hamburg, etc. There are some journal articles as well - including peer journals on Traditional Chinese Medicine.

However,
1. The self-reference "Dr. phil. Muhammad Schmidt, M..A., M.R.S. (NU/USA), Th.D. (ICW/USA)" is in violation with german laws, due to the unaccredited status of NU in Germany; this reference would need to be removed.
In my case, the relevant law applicable is the University Act in the Federal State of North Rhine Westphalia where I live. The paragraph on foreign degrees and their use in Germany states explicitly that the degrees can be used in the way they were conferred but must not be confused with degrees earned at German universities. This applies in case of unaccredited unis or those accredited but not considered not equivalent according to German standards. In the latter case, the legal requirement is to add the name of the school and the country where the degrees were earned. In case of a an accredited foreign university considered equivalent to German standards, these details would not need to be added. For US unis and colleges, German authorities follow the details of unis included on the so-called Carnegie list. I have communicated with the competent Ministry of Education in North Rhine Westphalia and they have advised me accordingly. Insofar, the information you have given above is not quite complete.
2. The magazines he published in are mostly non-peer-review-journals
Yes, some are peer, some are non-peer journals. Anything wrong with that? I never made any claims to the contrary.
3. All his current books are published via a "pay-to-play" publisher, that anyone can publish in, as long as the cheque arrives in time.
No, I am not paying for getting my things published except in two cases: when I had to publish my doctoral and habilitation theses. This is due to legal requirements. I suggest that you do a google search with key terms such as "Herder" and "Gelber Kaiser", "chinesische Medizin", and you will find that most of my works have been published for sale, and unlike in case of a doctoral/habilitation thesis published generates some income. Viademica is my current publisher which pays me the highest rates for my share in the sale of the books (50 % instead of 5 - 8 % in case of other commercial publishers).

My personal summary: Dr. Schmidt has fine academic credentials. He however didn't make the step to full professor
Correct, I never did that step in Germany because of the lacks of jobs offered. Bit I did that successfully outside Germany in Europe and elsewhere; with the exception of Poland, no habilitation was needed, the PhD was enough to meet the job qualification requirements. Habilitation requirement is only known in a few countries.
, so that he turned away from the legitimate academic landscape to the rather dubious wonders he now promotes.
No, I never turned away from the legitimate academic landscape (cf. details given above); I only started with the IFTS project in August 2004; before that, I was working full-time as a university professor; right now I am living on the income generated by my publications which is good enough to maintain a flat of 98 square meters I own and even more - all that I need for living at middle class level.
BTW, the "rather dubious wonders he promotes" must of course be IFTS that you are referring to, and you can be assured that my fellow-workers and I are working hard on improving IFTS and to give it a sound legally accredited status by the current accreditation procedure we are in (interim university charter to be granted soon) besides working on high quality programs for our students. In many countries IFTS has branches there are general problems with school branches like ours as their US religious exempt status does not have to high a reputation because of the degree mills that can be found among them. We have therefore decided to get rid of this "American heritage" and to seek accreditation on its own merits without the need to refer to the current "American heritage". However, we are grateful to our ICW partners in the US who generously have helped us over the past 5 years enabling to start the operation, giving us the chance to develop it and give it its own profile.
I am really wondering why nobody around here ever has had the idea to do a more profound research on ICW who provide IFTS with the legal cover. If IFTS was a degree mill as some people claim, then ICW should be as well as IFTS depends on them. Perhaps, you do not dare to defame them as their leadership might easily sue you for libel while you think that someone outside the US cannot. Apart from that, I am sure there is nothing illegal you will find in the case of ICW.
So, in summary, nothing is dubious, all information can be accessed publicly. If you regard something as "dubious", it is an entirely different thing - may be due to an incomplete knowledge of the real facts or some information that you cannot find (which does not necessarily mean that it does not exist).


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Re: Regarding Dr. Muhammad Schmidt and NationsUniversity

Postby Vice » Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:05 am

Stanislav wrote:
Vice wrote:These details do not change the fact that your doctorate and the procedure behind are not equivalent to the general standards of a doctorate in Europe because of the oral defense of your thesis missing. In these terms, it is a second-class doctorate. Period.

Rephrasing: a South African state university degrees are deficient because they do not conform to an obscure European academic tradition. Sweet. For your own sake, I hope you do not exhibit your racist great-white-educator attitude in Kenya or Haiti, Your Grace. Or you prefer "Beatitude"?
No, neither "Your Grace" nor "Beautitude". It should be "Pope", a position I was elevated to by Bill Grover recently on another forum....lol
As for "racist" - quoting relevant law in Europe is not "racist"; it is just a fact. Might take some intellectual efforts to understand that, and perhaps that is a bit too difficult for you.
I suggest you take a good look at the institutional settings that Grover is working with - all these Calvinist outfits in South Africa that have quite a strong tradition in justifying terrible apartheid by teaching the superiority of white man over the natives claiming that God has chosen the whites to rule over others. Calvinist predestination crap - does that tell you something? That`s highly racist indeed, and it is very clear that an independent Anglican church cannot be associated with such a highly doubtful setting.
What about the Southern Baptist Convention and its alleged links with the Ku-Klux clan in the USA?
Look in the mirror to see the racist.


Text in bold above is mine.
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Re: Regarding Dr. Muhammad Schmidt and NationsUniversity

Postby Vice » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:41 pm

levicoff wrote:
Now, the Bible says we should never say about anyone, "Raca!" - in other words, never call a person a fool. So I won't. I'll just stick to calling Muhammed a fraud and a rip-off. And, despite any knowledge of exegesis he may have, an incompetent nincompoop when it comes to research.



Levicoff, if you quote "raca" from the Bible, please take more care to be exact. Raca for example occurs in the Greek text of Mt. 5:22 but is not as Greek but an original Aramaic word (the Greek word would most likely be moros ). The original meaning of Aramaic Raca could be rendered more precisely as "a brainless person who is incapable of life because of that"...lol. Now, fool would not be the appropriate English translation as there is much more in the original meaning of that Aramaic word. To whom you or I may apply this term is a question that I want to leave undebated here as this seems to be too much far-off topic...lol.
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Re: Regarding Dr. Muhammad Schmidt and NationsUniversity

Postby Hungry Ghost » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:40 pm

Vice wrote:
Bill wrote:Dr. Dr. Schmidt , Prelate of Japan,

Mr. Grover, as an academic you should know about the techniques of quoting references. Where is the source for your reference regarding "Prelate of Japan"? Maybe, you drank a bit too much today?!


Bill Grover didn't feel like looking up the reference for that, so I did it.

The precise wording seems to be "Vicar General" of the "Orthodox Eparchy of Japan".

http://netministries.org/see/churches.e ... 83?frame=n
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Re: Regarding Dr. Muhammad Schmidt and NationsUniversity

Postby Stanislav » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:54 pm

Hungry Ghost wrote:
Vice wrote:
Bill wrote:Dr. Dr. Schmidt , Prelate of Japan,

Mr. Grover, as an academic you should know about the techniques of quoting references. Where is the source for your reference regarding "Prelate of Japan"? Maybe, you drank a bit too much today?!


Bill Grover didn't feel like looking up the reference for that, so I did it.

The precise wording seems to be "Vicar General" of the "Orthodox Eparchy of Japan".

http://netministries.org/see/churches.e ... 83?frame=n

So Vladyko Schmidt is an impostor. It is quite clear that his "Eparchy" has nothing to do with the real, autonomous Orthodox Church of Japan http://www.orthodoxjapan.jp/
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Re: Regarding Dr. Muhammad Schmidt and NationsUniversity

Postby Stanislav » Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:05 pm

Vice wrote:
Stanislav wrote:
Vice wrote:These details do not change the fact that your doctorate and the procedure behind are not equivalent to the general standards of a doctorate in Europe because of the oral defense of your thesis missing. In these terms, it is a second-class doctorate. Period.

Rephrasing: a South African state university degrees are deficient because they do not conform to an obscure European academic tradition. Sweet. For your own sake, I hope you do not exhibit your racist great-white-educator attitude in Kenya or Haiti, Your Grace. Or you prefer "Beatitude"?
No, neither "Your Grace" nor "Beautitude". It should be "Pope", a position I was elevated to by Bill Grover recently on another forum....lol
As for "racist" - quoting relevant law in Europe is not "racist"; it is just a fact. Might take some intellectual efforts to understand that, and perhaps that is a bit too difficult for you.


No, but claiming that African degree is second class because of European law is racist, and that's what you did. Try to make some intellectual effort and wrap your mind around difficult geography concepts. Europe is not Africa. See? Not that hard. Now kindly go to your middle-school legal literacy text and try to grasp "jurisdiction" concept. Maybe then you won't embarrass yourself publicly using ridiculous "State Federal Law" statements.
Vice wrote:I suggest you take a good look at the institutional settings that Grover is working with - all these Calvinist outfits in South Africa that have quite a strong tradition in justifying terrible apartheid by teaching the superiority of white man over the natives claiming that God has chosen the whites to rule over others. Calvinist predestination crap - does that tell you something? That`s highly racist indeed, and it is very clear that an independent Anglican church cannot be associated with such a highly doubtful setting.
What about the Southern Baptist Convention and its alleged links with the Ku-Klux clan in the USA?
Look in the mirror to see the racist.


My Theology training is limited by one Sunday-school level text. It was quite unequivocal in stating that both you and Bill are heretics. You stating that a school formed in 2004 has apartheid tradition also make you look like a lunatic :) Does your "independent Anglican" church have enough doctrine to settle the way to address a bishop, or are you just making stuff up as you go, Pope?
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Re: Regarding Dr. Muhammad Schmidt and NationsUniversity

Postby John Bear » Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:55 pm

From http://www.orthodoxjapan.jp/
Surprisingly, no curtain rods.

Image
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