Yet another Bible College in beautiful Lake Charles.......

Discussions on the value or merit of unaccredited programs and institutions.

Re: Yet another Bible College in beautiful Lake Charles.......

Postby scottae316 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:02 am

johann wrote:Scottae -

I forgot - there is another process that basically says "Ok, they're not selling degrees -- but not approved or accredited either." That would be the State-Licensing model - Hawaii and California come to mind. Was that what you had in mind, possibly?

Johann

PS - Quite a few States, e.g. Wyoming & Alabama used to do a lot of this, but have since abandoned such a process. It made them havens for thoroughly bogus schools.


Yes, I know that some states do this with New York State Regents actually being a recognized accreditor by DE, they accredit 24 schools ranging from theater, art, to bio-chemistry PHd's. I do not think that is the answer either. I group that sanctions a school that can demonstrate that is making an attempt. I was licensed as a Minister this summer, the requirements were to attend the Church's Bible School. They are or were at one time accredited by ACI. Now I also have an earned M.Div from an ATS Seminary. In no way do the two schools compare academically, but they both serve a purpose. Some leave the Bible School and start Churches or ministries. Others become involved with other ministries. I learned a lot there, again was it of the same academic rigor as my Graduate or undergraduate classes, no. Only one instructor was close, and that was more of a college level probably sophomore or junior level. I believe that both serve a valid purpose. FYI, I did not receive a degree from the Bible School, it was a Ministerial License which I think is also a valid way to go. No way to pretend that they handed out degrees. And my License came on a beautiful wooden frame with glass over it at no charge, much nicer than either my college or graduate degree and there was no additional charge.
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Re: Yet another Bible College in beautiful Lake Charles.......

Postby TheoloM » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:14 am

Forever stirring the pot aren't you, Titus? :mrgreen:

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Re: Yet another Bible College in beautiful Lake Charles.......

Postby scottae316 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:42 pm

Titus wrote:
scottae316 wrote: I was licensed as a Minister this summer, the requirements were to attend the Church's Bible School. They are or were at one time accredited by ACI. Now I also have an earned M.Div from an ATS Seminary. In no way do the two schools compare academically, but they both serve a purpose. Some leave the Bible School and start Churches or ministries. Others become involved with other ministries. I learned a lot there, again was it of the same academic rigor as my Graduate or undergraduate classes, no. Only one instructor was close, and that was more of a college level probably sophomore or junior level. I believe that both serve a valid purpose. FYI, I did not receive a degree from the Bible School, it was a Ministerial License which I think is also a valid way to go. No way to pretend that they handed out degrees. And my License came on a beautiful wooden frame with glass over it at no charge, much nicer than either my college or graduate degree and there was no additional charge.


Does the "Church's Bible School" you attended (the one accredited by ACI) issue degrees? If so, through what level?


No it does not issue degrees, it Licenses the graduates. With an additional year of work, you can be ordained. No degrees are offered. I said it was at one time accredited by ACI, I do not think it is anymore.
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Re: Yet another Bible College in beautiful Lake Charles.......

Postby scottae316 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:51 pm

TheoloM wrote:Forever stirring the pot aren't you, Titus? :mrgreen:

TheoloM

I did not take it as such. I have observed the opinion of people on this board. Many are academics, they have their set of beliefs and opinions and others have theirs. I understand where Titus opinion and the reasons, I share many of them. I however see a place for schools that are small and trying to educate people in their faith that have absolutely no chance of ever being accredited because of their size. Now the question is are they not valid, to which I say no they are. Should they issue academic degrees, probably not. To some have rigors training, absolutely. One I know is very rigors, but because they use a research and mentor model only they will never be accredited in the US. Why, because we here in the US are not willing to have more than one accepted model. There has been a few maverick schools that are changing this but it would take decades to bring about change.
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Re: Yet another Bible College in beautiful Lake Charles.......

Postby johann » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:27 pm

nosborne48 wrote:Oh, I'M not offended. I've heard far worse from my former clients. I'm just surprised that a Canadian gentleman such as yourself would use such language.

I accept your rebuke, Nosborne - and have apologized. I do think you should be aware of the following, though:

(1) As I've said before, in this very forum - I'm sorry but I cannot claim to be a gentleman - and never have. Canadian? As my documents reveal, I am still "nasty, British and short" after 60 years in Canada. http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/254050.html/

(2) As far as posting this admittedly ugly quote in a public forum - I pulled the words from two very public sources. Here it is on WIKI - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinking_badges. Wiki isn't always accurate or erudite, but it is very public. The other source of the same quote was DI. Are you advocating that WIKI or DI should be either censured or censored, for publishing this quote? Should the original publisher of the novel have been "muzzled" in 1927, a time less permissive than our own?

(3) I would NEVER say such a thing in my favourite bar in Zacatecas -- if I had one -- or in any public place, or to any person. It's not "cute." And yes -- it could (perhaps justifiably) get me killed. I may be ignorant -- but not stupid. :mrgreen:

(4) Would your reaction be the same if, with full attribution, I quoted something potentially as insulting from, say, Allen Ginsberg - who wrote some beauts - or any of the current/past crop of rappers, with their Bentleys, bling, Cristal and mutha--'s? Just wondering.... :?:

nosborne48 wrote:I guess it's a little like American Yiddish...we use words as "cute" that are deeply offensive to real Yiddish speakers. :(

Bad language is never "cute." At best it is harmless, but still an indicator of bad taste -- an offence to which I've already pled guilty.

I know a Yiddish word which I think is kind of cute -- and it's not bad language at all. "Fartik!" (I'm done!)

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Re: Yet another Bible College in beautiful Lake Charles.......

Postby scottae316 » Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:47 am

Titus wrote:There are many programs of study provided by ecclesiastical bodies for purposes of in-house training, licensing/ordination and such, that need not be legitimately accredited. However, when an institution begins to award academic degrees, those degrees (content, rigor, requirements, etc) should be on par with accepted academic norms.


Um, I agree and have said this all along.
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Re: Yet another Bible College in beautiful Lake Charles.......

Postby sadi1781 » Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:29 pm

I think there exists a system, a sort of vicious cycle, wherein dedicated devout people with middle class incomes cannot get credentials. Only the wealthy or those able to enslave themselves to twenty years of student loans can afford to pay the accredited institutions' fees.
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Re: Yet another Bible College in beautiful Lake Charles.......

Postby johann » Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:09 pm

sadi1781 wrote:I think there exists a system, a sort of vicious cycle...

Sounds like a great start for yet another conspiracy theory. Fact is, this board and others have among their members quite a number of people, who have earned genuine credentials while having relatively modest incomes ...and have done this by making astute educational choices, thereby avoiding crushing amounts of debt. There are, I'm sure, many others who have done likewise, but who do not bother with these boards. For schooling, I've always been a "pay as you go" man myself - and from what I read, I'm far from alone. Come to think of it, "pay as you go" worked well for my sons, too. :)

Granted, there are many who have not managed to do as well -- or the US would not have educational debt now surpassing a trillion dollars. There is student debt in Canada, but it is not nearly as problematic as that of the US. Here, tuition costs less, on average, and there is less potential for abuse by lender or consumer than in the American college-loan system.

I believe genuine higher ed. is attainable for people of average means -- but they do have to make choices. And they often have to work and go to college or university at the same time. Been there. Done that. :)

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Re: Yet another Bible College in beautiful Lake Charles.......

Postby scottae316 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:41 am

I found a recently accredited Seminary (DETC), Grace Communion Seminary and the cost for per COURSE is $225 which is $75 per credit hour. Now depending on your situation, it may or may not work. The estimate for the Master's Degree is about $3190 plus about $600 for books. Now that is a real bargain for a Master of Pastoral Studies degree from a legitimately accredited school. My wife and I are looking at doing this together and at that price we can afford it.
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Re: Yet another Bible College in beautiful Lake Charles.....

Postby sadi1781 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:54 pm

OVAL BIBLE COLLEGE IS AN CHRISTIAN ACREDITING BIBLE COLLEGE. People need to understand this important issue. Many seminars and bible college have a secular acreditation, or have the ATS acreditation. ATS acreditation I dont trust in this manner of acredited schools. ATS acredited catholic, mormons, adventist, and other cults and sects seminars and college. As a Christians bible believing we be carefully with this kind of acreditation. In the past many people, trust in schools that have ATS acreditation. But this agency consider the seventh day adventist, mormons and others cults an acredited christian seminars. Im a evangelical christian, and consider a trust acredited agency never acredited a cults and sects seminars. For this reason I study in a bible colleges that dont have ATS acreditation. If you are a Christian, if you love the word of God, If you love Jesus, If you have idea about the cults and sects, you need to consider that issue.

ATS and other "christian acreditation private agencies", acredited seminars that destroy the confident and trust in the bible. If you go to study in a school that the Word of God is an other book, you need study in school that have respect for the word of God. Other issue for me is that some "acredited" christian seminary" believe in the evolution and creation. The bible believers never believe in the false doctrines of demos of evolution. Im a creationist, bible believing in Jesus Christ. Many of this acredited agency like ATS, denied acreditation to a bible believing college or seminars, because they dont have the money for pay thousands of dollars for that. But they have bible doctrine, the thrue of God. Others acredited denied the creation doctrine in 7 days and destroy the confident in the bible, the Word of God.

All people that critiziced Oval Bible College dont think in the power of the bible true. For me, I feel confident, with Oval Bible College. Only if you study in that college you can see the power of the information, the class, the material, and of course, THE TRUE BOOK WE STUDY. THE HOLY BIBLE, THE WORD OF GOD. IM PROUD STUDY IN OVAL BIBLE COLLEGE. ITS ALL ABOUT THE BIBLE AND ONLY THE BIBLE.

NOTE: Sorry for my english. IM A SPEAKER SPANISH PASTOR.
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Re: Yet another Bible College in beautiful Lake Charles.....

Postby sadi1781 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:06 pm

OVAL BIBLE COLLEGE IS A CHRISTIAN BIBLE COLLEGE ACREDITED IN GOOD STANDIND BEFORE GOD: BUT CONSIDER OTHER ISSUE, THE COST AND TUITION. Many people think they need pay thousand of money to feel that their education is good and have a great value. The real questions before God is "Do you have God acreditation? Do you have bible authority? Do you have the guidance of the Holy Spirit? Do you have the mind of Christ in that issue? or you need the human, humanistic, atheism aproved? In real bible believing college or seminary they dont need our money, the only love preach the gospel of Jesus, educated people and preach the love of our Savior. I pay for my two doctorals degree with Oval Bible College, but I pay a low price, for a good education, bible and Christ center material.

If you are atheist, no christian I understand your complainst with Oval Bible College and all bible schools. But if you are a Christian, that love Jesus and his kingdom, you need to respect Oval Bible College, and all bible schools that not have secular acreditation. Or no have the ATS acreditation. If you are a Christian think the issue that ATS acredited every school or seminar that pay all $$$$$$, thousands of money that people pay. ATS think dont care about true gospel, about the false teaching of evolution, abortion, and other critical issues. The thousands of money you pay for you degree is for the ATS acreditation. Do you think its right that manner of pay your degree? only for acreditation? We believe in bible, Christian acreditation.

If you are a christian and think more you pay more value have in your degree you need pray to God about it and consider if you believe in bible acredited or secular, atheist, evolution acreditation.

NOTE: SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH, AM A SPANISH SPEAKER PASTOR.
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Re: Yet another Bible College in beautiful Lake Charles.....

Postby johann » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:15 am

sadi1781 wrote: But if you are a Christian, that love Jesus and his kingdom, you need to respect Oval Bible College, and all bible schools that not have secular acreditation.

If you feel your Bible study at Oval brings you closer to Christ - that's fine. OK, you're a Christian - but that study does not make you a scholar.

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Re: Yet another Bible College in beautiful Lake Charles.....

Postby sadi1781 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:49 pm

johann wrote:
sadi1781 wrote: But if you are a Christian, that love Jesus and his kingdom, you need to respect Oval Bible College, and all bible schools that not have secular acreditation.

If you feel your Bible study at Oval brings you closer to Christ - that's fine. OK, you're a Christian - but that study does not make you a scholar.

Johann



Thats your personal opinion. Im not need be accepted by the scholar of this secular word. As a pastor Im preaching the gospel of Jesus. I participate in a many debates in universities, churches etc about the creationism, evolution, apologetics issues and with my doctorals degree of Oval Bible College, all the others profesionals respect my person and the power of our message. Every pastor not only need study a degree, we need study every day, every week many books of sistematic theology, ethics, apologetics, missionology, hermeneutic, homoletic. We need read books about creations vs evolution controversy, escathology, bibliology, demonology. We need more than have a degree, study and read.

I dont have to be accepted for scholars, We have the aprove of God, and his HOly Spirit. If you need a pastor that be a scholar for diferent reasons, you need think about the calling of God to every pastor to preach the gospel. All the bible college demostrate the false argument that the people need to study 5 to 7 years to be a doctor, pastor or missionary. This is not that God work with his childrens. This is the viciuos, the mind of the man, the control of the system of this secular, humanistic, atheist word. We preach the gospel, we are people of God. And by the authority of the Word of God and his Holy spirit we have the confident that have the preparation require for preaching the gospel, do apologetic in the defense of the gospel of Jesus. We dont need the aprove of this humanistic or secular word.
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Re: Yet another Bible College in beautiful Lake Charles.....

Postby nosborne48 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:54 pm

Okaaaaayyyy...if all that is true, why do you need a degree at all?

It had better not be for the title; doesn't the New Testament specifically warn AGAINST coveting titles and seeking prestige?
Una cosa mala nunca muere.
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Re: Yet another Bible College in beautiful Lake Charles.....

Postby Rich Douglas » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:27 pm

sadi1781 wrote:OVAL BIBLE COLLEGE IS A CHRISTIAN BIBLE COLLEGE ACREDITED IN GOOD STANDIND BEFORE GOD:


God accredits schools? I'd love to see the signature on the certificate.

BUT CONSIDER OTHER ISSUE, THE COST AND TUITION. Many people think they need pay thousand of money to feel that their education is good and have a great value.


"Value" is the ratio of costs vs. benefits. You've only cited half of that calculation. The benefit--especially if caught using this thing--is either zero or negative. And you can't divide by a negative number. (Well, maybe God can.)
The real questions before God is "Do you have God acreditation?


God doesn't accredit.
Do you have bible authority?


I assume you mean the Bible. It doesn't confer authority, especially in secular matters like education.

Do you have the guidance of the Holy Spirit? Do you have the mind of Christ in that issue? or you need the human, humanistic, atheism aproved?


If by "atheism" you mean "without God," then yes, accreditation is done that way.

In real bible believing college or seminary they dont need our money,


Yet they charge it anyway. Who knew?

the only love preach the gospel of Jesus, educated people and preach the love of our Savior. I pay for my two doctorals degree with Oval Bible College, but I pay a low price, for a good education, bible and Christ center material.


An education and a degree can be two quite separate things. I don't care to speak for the quality of education, but the degrees are worthless (except to fool people).

If you are atheist, no christian I understand your complainst with Oval Bible College and all bible schools. But if you are a Christian, that love Jesus and his kingdom, you need to respect Oval Bible College, and all bible schools that not have secular acreditation.


No, you don't. That's a critical thinking failure called "appeal to authority" and it's useless here.

Or no have the ATS acreditation. If you are a Christian think the issue that ATS acredited every school or seminar that pay all $$$$$$, thousands of money that people pay. ATS think dont care about true gospel, about the false teaching of evolution, abortion, and other critical issues. The thousands of money you pay for you degree is for the ATS acreditation. Do you think its right that manner of pay your degree? only for acreditation? We believe in bible, Christian acreditation.


Believe whatever you want, but this isn't a university. It awards unrecognized degrees.

If you are a christian and think more you pay more value have in your degree you need pray to God about it and consider if you believe in bible acredited or secular, atheist, evolution acreditation.

NOTE: SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH, AM A SPANISH SPEAKER PASTOR.


If recognition isn't important, why are you fighting so hard for it?
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