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Discussions on the value or merit of unaccredited programs and institutions.

Postby North » Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:50 am

You are of course correct Pastor John Hudson that Chaplain Myles Calvin would never use that "F" word you mention. There are people here who do use that sort of terminology but he does not. While he respects that there are various view points on foul language, he does not use it or approve of it as you are well aware since he has voiced that to you. Chaplain Calvin has voiced that this should be especially true of clergy who should be seeking to not bring dishonor to our Lord. Therefore as you note it is highly improbable that he would even post on the site of which you mention and are frequent visitor.

As has been stated he is not familiar with TIFPEC University other than what you yourself have posted. Which is certainly fascinating. The two school (s) offered by Bishop Young were a couple of non degree granting entities that were set up to provide formation to Franciscans and fill in reading gaps of others. So they certainly cannot be evaluated in those terms. These were under development but were likely comparable to the Veritas series offered by the Knights of Columbus. Certainly, no one would endeveavor to evaluate them under the same conditions one would an academic degree offering entity.

In terms of denominations, you do bring up a good point. I think there is much in the way of blessing from association or understanding of the sheer diversity in religious life. This tends to give one a much broader perspective on religion in the US. You have a great deal of variation in requirements for clergy. For instance, some Baptists and Church of God in Christ clergy may do more of a mentorship study after their calling and then be ordained. I think this is also true in the case of Calvary Chapel (in a general sense). Southern Baptists tend towards seminary education (certainly this is the case in larger Southern Baptist Churches). Lutherans also generally require the full seminary education though I understand there are some exceptions in certain Synods in rare cases. Roman Catholics require seminary education. Many of these entities will have a preference or requirement for graduates to be of their own seminaries. Though there are certain denominations such as COGIC or smaller Baptist entities that will permit clergy with seminary/graduate degrees, when they want to put forward clergy for federal Chaplaincies they must meet Federal requirements which are stringent in terms of accredited graduate education, recognized denominational endorsement and so on.

This does bring up an interesting point. There are certain denominations without a traditional graduate seminary education. We could think of the Mormons in this context. What the Federal Chaplaincies require is that they obtain the equivalent. There are Muslim Chaplains, Buddhist Chaplains, Christian Scientists and others. In general, what has been managed is a model for society in terms of diversity and acceptance of diversity. Not that there have never been rough points.
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duckwit

Postby uncle janko » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:13 am

Is an ACCS degree identical in quality to a UBS degree?

Why are you discussing yourself in the third person?

If it is to say who I am, whom does that bother?

You lie by attributing opinions to me, to Jack, and to others--as supposedly expressed on this board--which have not been expressed on this board.
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Re: duckwit

Postby North » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:27 am

uncle janko wrote:Is an ACCS degree identical in quality to a UBS degree?

Why are you discussing yourself in the third person?

If it is to say who I am, whom does that bother?

You lie by attributing opinions to me, to Jack, and to others--as supposedly expressed on this board--which have not been expressed on this board.


I know nothing about UBS.

Pastor Hudson attempting to attribute to you much more dignified and Christian like perspective than is often displayed by you is a kindness I am extending to you. Your improper association of clergy with another Board whose perspective and actions bear nothing in common with those clergy, their values, or actions is not exactly ethical. This has been brought to your attention. Whether you choose to correct the behavior is up to your better angels and the guidance of your conscience to do the correct thing.

I may get things wrong occasionally but one thing is certain, I do not lie. I pray that the same can be said for you but I am afraid that some of the things I have seen you do in terms of the above are not indicative of being honest. I am hopeful that you are simply misguided, or having common sense blocked by anger over a disagreement you had rather than a lack of decency.
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Postby uncle janko » Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:37 pm

The stuff you post here is exactly congruent with the stuff of yours on DL Pravda. Your fetish about dirty words (curse jar and other inanities) indicates your intense desire to use them as long as you don't get caught. Your attempt to make this a disagreement--let alone a disagreement about military chaplaincy--is a lie.

You are a millist, a charlatan, a fake-school-monger, and will join any and every denomination (fake or real) which you think will keep you in your volunteer chaplaincy so you can dress up and play priest. You have been associated with or webvented several phony schools which existed only on the internet and at least one ordination mill (Jimmy's characterisation of an otherwise unknown group). You graduated from ACCS but say you've never heard of UBS--having been an active poster first on Mr White's board and now here where UBS has been discussed, and now incardinated as a priest in a denomination which has graduates of your school (formerly UBS, latterly ACCS, now no more) teaching at its seminary. One month you're an ultra-liberal protestant, the next a far-right Anglican. One month you extol Bishop Schori and the National Council of Churches, the next you excoriate them (or was it the other way round?). That's not ecumenism. That's either instability or deception.

I predict that unless you get made a bishop--since ego-gratification is your engine, as shown by your panicked pulling-down of website after website when they were exposed as shams and by your recent copious praise of your own sanctity here--you'll ditch the Episcopal Orthodox Church for some less real group which will serve as your mitre box. And, yes, as long as you spew your venom on DL Pravda and clutter up this board, I will remind all and sundry of your bad intentions and bad behaviour.
Doing good, doing well, raising hope and raising hell. Janko Shave.
"Airplane music? Just like music for big bees, only louder."--Arnold Schoenberg
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Postby Jimmy » Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:55 pm

uncle janko wrote:... One month you're an ultra-liberal protestant, the next a far-right Anglican. One month you extol Bishop Schori and the National Council of Churches, the next you excoriate them (or was it the other way round?). That's not ecumenism. That's either instability or deception...


I have to admit, I really don't understand this either. I know you like Spong but I don't see how that's congruent with your present ecclesiastical affiliation. I am not being critical. I am just trying to understand all this as one who finds the study of denominations quite fascinating.
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Postby Little Fauss » Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:55 pm

It's almost a certainty that any website, publication, movement or organization with the name "truth" in its title will be, at bottom, about lies. For example, The Plain Truth magazine once was lies straight through (though they've lately reformed). I wish the same could be said for DL Pravda nee DL Truth, which rasies libel, ad hominem and invective to an art form. I get the distinct feeling that North falls pretty much in that same category.
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Postby uncle janko » Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:29 pm

Форма искусствоа??? Нет! Буржуазный формализм! :twisted:
Doing good, doing well, raising hope and raising hell. Janko Shave.
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Postby Jimmy » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:40 am

Little Fauss wrote:... For example, The Plain Truth magazine once was lies straight through (though they've lately reformed)...


I respectfully disagree. There was a great deal of truth in that magazine.
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Postby uncle janko » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:15 am

Take that to off-topic.

Keep this thread on DL Pravda, its denizens, like-minded abusers (especially when they're the same people), exploitation of public trust, and millism/credential fraud. Do not feed, inadvertently, the false claim by the newly-incardinated star fraudster that this thread is about religion. It isn't, and neither is he. Fauss made a clever play on words by way of analogy; to argue about a magazine is an inchoate blunder that misses the SUBSTANCE of Fauss' post.

Please do not continue that argument on this thread.
Doing good, doing well, raising hope and raising hell. Janko Shave.
"Airplane music? Just like music for big bees, only louder."--Arnold Schoenberg
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Postby Little Fauss » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:10 am

"There was a great deal of truth in that magazine."


Literally, yes, that word appeared often in the publication.

____________________________________________________


Sorry, Janko, for the hijack; it's not that I set out to put each thread I join into the wilderness. I don't know where this predilection comes from--I don't intend it.

Jimmy: Please respond to me in a separate thread or via PM if you wish to continue it. We have our theological differences, but I'm open to anyone's views on Armstrongism and the WCG, which I concede has reformed.

Back on topic, I think Janko and many others here have been Bobby Kennedy to North, DLT and other millists' mafia--and the latter collection have acted pretty much as the mafia with their attempts to destroy the former. Thank goodness the bulk of them, in addition to being petty online thieves, are also, unlike the old school mafia, confirmed cowards.
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Postby Jonathan Whatley » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:57 am

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Postby uncle janko » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:29 pm

Note also that Duhgreebored is as much a millist site as DL Turds. It's just adorned with magnolias, that's all. Its purpose is to allow self-accredited scaminaries, here and in India, to promote themselves, and for fraudsters and millists to vent. It whinges about human dignity--but applies this only to millists--while the whingettes happily defame accredited schools for shuckin' and jivin' insufficiently for whaht woemunhuud. The heirs of James Parker Dees (fake episcopacy, fake schools, white supremacism) come here and defame, and then proclaim their own wonderfulness when caught at it, as caught at it they have been, are now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen

The fundamentalist culture of crap is always the same. The millist culture of crap is always the same. The criminality and venality are always the same, and no amount of sanctimony here or elsewhere (by millists and credentialmongers)can make a degree mill, credential mill, or ordination mill anything but what it intriniscally is: copular theft, lies, yokelryand madness.

So: any opinions on the University of Biblical (pronounced bibicul, doubtless) Studies?
Doing good, doing well, raising hope and raising hell. Janko Shave.
"Airplane music? Just like music for big bees, only louder."--Arnold Schoenberg
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Postby Little Fauss » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:52 pm

I've been over at DLT trying to reason a bit, but it's a lost cause.

Mark Twain humorously wrote about cultures in which people took pride in their ability to defraud their best friends. I think that holds true at DLT. You can ask them, "Does it make you proud to: Assist people in perpetrating fraud upon employers?Diminish the utility of legitimate DL degrees? Smear innocent spouses and children of those who try to expose fraud? Distort your opponents' positions and defame them when they're actually right in what they're claiming?" The answer to these questions is, of course, a resounding "Yes!"

You don't reason with someone like that.

I have no knowledge of the University of Biblical Studies, but I think it's sad that some Chsristians are credulous and greedy enough to create a market for bible-based mill degrees.

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Postby uncle janko » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:04 am

Quite right, Fauss! Reciprocal reason requires rationality, basic good-will and a non-deconstructionist use of language (what the noble ancients called rectification of names).

What one DOES (as on this thread) is expose, expose, expose, no matter how tiresome it becomes to oneself, no matter how misunderstood by a few decent persons who generalise their fundamental decency to the indecent and corrupt out of humanist or Christian charity (misplaced), no matter how long it takes. Philological proof (you will know the limitations--and the strengths--of that term as an exegete yourself) of a DLT and DD poster being one and the same has long since been offered. The words uttered here by one such--NOT there--are alone copious indictment of millism, lies, and credential-mongering by the utterer. Add to them the words written, inspired, and approved over there, and the picture is pretty bleak indeed.

PS. I should have been more flattered by a comparison to Thomas Dewey than to Robert Kennedy, but the goodwill is appreciated.
Doing good, doing well, raising hope and raising hell. Janko Shave.
"Airplane music? Just like music for big bees, only louder."--Arnold Schoenberg
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Postby Little Fauss » Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:15 am

You're right. Their tactics there are pretty nigh proof of what they're all about. I'm not sure I can reason with them; if you try, they see it as a sign of weakness. Pure sociopathic. Problem is to admit fault or evil, they'd have to back out and undo so much they've apparently done, so they just push on. Blasted shame, they're made in the image of G-d as much as anyone. Anyway, it's always nice to be able to joust with you and still see each other as human beings. That's the difference, I can't find any humanity over there. Just arrogant pretense on my part to think I could make a difference. Sure!
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