"DLT" discussion forum

Discussions on the value or merit of unaccredited programs and institutions.

"DLT" discussion forum

Postby g-gollin » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:00 pm

I want to be bone-dry in how I write this. Please ignore the small print

Robert Ray Hill (the person who explained that an unidentified hacker had made me a "World Information Distributed Umiversity Grand PhD and Full Professor") has announced on Degreeinformation DL the existence of a new forum named "DLT" ("DLT," somewhat like "BLT" which is a sandwich. Perhaps "DLT" is a sanbwich).

The DLT logo features a piece of the Statue of Liberty (that looks a lot like what was visible above the sands of post-apocalypse New York at the conclusion of Planet of the Apes) in its logo, perhaps to suggest something about the board's focus. What could it be? (Why it's perfectly obvious: punk hairstyles featuring spikes, or else How to Make Hats From Toothpicks.)

The first post in the first thread incorrectly identifies DegreeDiscussion as a "cancer." (I would have guessed "Libra" or maybe "Pisces.") This same post informs the naive visitor that "following [DD members'] advice is like drinking from the toilet. Yeah it's water but who wants to drink it." (Clearly, the poster has never owned a cat. Recall Colby Nolan, the cat who held an advanced degree from a self-accredited goat bag. Perhaps it is not Colby's cat-ness but the nature of his academic accomplishment that makes him seek water in unconventional, innovative locations.)

Most of the contents page for entry into the site is occupied by a "DL Hall of Shame" list (that names a number of people who are widely thought to be unsympathetic to the notion that a credit card that hasn't yet been maxed-out demonstrates life experience equivalent to a Masters of Business Administration). This would suggest that the site's major emphasis is not distance learning but something else (howling at the moon, or else something much like it).

And that's today's news.
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Postby me again » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:39 pm

John Bear, Notorious former degree mill owner, now "poacher turned gamekeeper."

Wow!!! This guy doesn't like John Bear -- check out what he wrote about him there.

BTW, I bought one of John Bear's book many years ago, in the days before DL was popular, and it served me well.
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Postby John Bear » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:32 am

Because I guess I am a putton for glunishment, I posted this over there:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The notorious John Bear
In the immortal words of Ronald Reagan, "There you go again."

There is so much that can be said, and I am so weary of saying it over and over and over again. So in the highly improbable event that there is someone reading this who does not believe they already know more about me than my wife, my mother, and my dog combined, permit me to do these three things:

1. Address briefly three of the most egregious errors in "Mr. Degree"'s comments on me. (That doesn't mean there aren't more; there are.)
2. Direct readers to my CV at http://circledance.tripod.com
3. Reaffirm, as I have said many times, that I will gladly respond, by good old-fashioned U.S. mail, to any and all questions that anyone may have. My address is on the above-mentioned website.

Egregious error #1
"He was an administrator at . . . Degreeinfo.com..."

No. Never. Not even for one minute. (The error may arise because I was incorrectly and improperly briefly listed somewhere as an administrator, but that was corrected.)

Egregious error #2
"Real diploma mills - the "degree in 30 days, no questions asked" places - get an easy ride from Bear..."

This is so untrue, it is ludicrous. Since 1974 I have been speaking and writing forcefully and regularly against such places. No one could possibly produce even one sentence that I have written that "goes easy" on these vile places.

Egregious error #3
"[w]hen [Bear] comments in the media about [Columbia Pacific] and its graduates, he doesn't mention his involvement..."

Yes I do. With great regularity. Of course when a 3-hour interview (such as mine on "60 Minutes" two years ago) is condensed to a few minutes of air time, a great deal is omitted. (When I did 20 minutes with Mitch Ablom, it ended up as about 30 seconds of sound bite on the air.) But my involvement has been described and listed in the "About the author" section of my books for 20+ years, and on my website.

Thanks for your attention.

Sincerely, John Bear

John Bear
Reed College, 1955-1958*
B.A., University of California, Berkeley, 1959
M.J., University of California, Berkeley, 1960
Ph.D., Michigan State University, 1966
_____
* Wow, that makes him, let's see, 168 years old. Or so it feels sometimes.
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Re: "DLT" discussion forum

Postby George Brown » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:14 am

g-gollin wrote: Robert Ray Hill (the person who explained that an unidentified hacker had made me a "World Information Distributed Umiversity Grand PhD and Full Professor") has announced on Degreeinformation DL the existence of a new forum named "DLT" ("DLT," somewhat like "BLT" which is a sandwich. Perhaps "DLT" is a sanbwich).


Yeah, but you can be guaranteed that the Reverend Professor Dr Swifteagle WEEDU has nothing to do with the board. The initial postings and far too lucid. Anyone wanna place bets on how long it will last (considering the defamatory material it currently hosts)?

Cheers,

George
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Postby Jimmy » Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:22 pm

me again wrote:
John Bear, Notorious former degree mill owner, now "poacher turned gamekeeper."

Wow!!! This guy doesn't like John Bear -- check out what he wrote about him there.

BTW, I bought one of John Bear's book many years ago, in the days before DL was popular, and it served me well.


While I personally have concerns about prior involvements with schools now being castigated, in all fairness, all the facts are not on the table.

Yes, Dr. Bear was involved with several unaccredited schools that are now regarded as degree mills by many.

And yes, some quotes of his are accurate regarding using UA schools.

But, but, only partial quotes are used when condemning him.

On page 14 of the "Revised and Expanded for 1993-1994" College Degrees by Mail, Bear says,

The information in this book is a complete and current as I could make it. But things change: schools change their policies, bad schools get better, good schools get worse, new schools appear, old schools disappear.


As an example, I have degrees from Bethany and Golden State. Bethany appears to lack the academic quality it had when I attended; Golden State appears to have improved its academic quality since I attended.

However, the bottom line is this: no one forced anyone to attend any schools. If Dr. Bear recommened 100 schools and some chose to attend one (like I did with Summit University), that's not Dr. Bear's fault; I am soley and totally responsible for the choices I made and continue to make.

A recommendation is just that, a recommendation! It's time for some people to wipe their noses, grow up, get a life, and assume responsibility for their lives. Furthermore, anyone who would make a major decision in life on the recommendation of only one person is an idiot!*



*No, I didn't chose Summit strictly on Bear's book alone. Thought you had me, didn't you!
Jimmy
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Postby Jimmy » Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:30 pm

I do give credit to the new forum on two accounts. First, they don't condemn all unaccredited schools. That's good! Second, they continue to show the hypocrisy, sham, and phoniness of Degree Info. Plus, the blog of Chip's they link to is further proof of the "near pedophile" nature of his involvements. Did you see those photos of those "barely legal" males? What a sick pervert! Anyone who continues to post there is as sick as Chip White.
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Postby Jake_A » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:28 pm

Jimmy wrote:I do give credit to the new forum on two accounts. First, they don't condemn all unaccredited schools. That's good! Second, they continue to show the hypocrisy, sham, and phoniness of Degree Info. Plus, the blog of Chip's they link to is further proof of the "near pedophile" nature of his involvements. Did you see those photos of those "barely legal" males? What a sick pervert! Anyone who continues to post there is as sick as Chip White.


Methinks 'tis quite unjust and unfair to condemn all of the hundreds (nay, thousands) of persons who had posted , or continue to post, at one DL site due to the infamy and alleged disgusting/unethical/insincere actions of ONE person. Is it?

If it ever comes out that I am a prolific and dishonest worm-eater (Hey! I tried eating live worms for a reality TV show but I did not make it to the final list .... no, well, actually, I made it - to the hospital; some would say, I should have made it to the mad house :D), would it be fair for YOU, Mr. Jimmy, to be condemned just because you post in the same forum as I do (this forum)?

Nah!
:D

Carry on!
MS, MPH, CPM, CCP, PhD Cand.
"A good name is better than riches"
BS Brown University, Prov, RI
MS Columbia University, NYC
MPH, Columbia University, NYC
CPM, Geo. Wash. Univ, DC
CCP, Learning Tree Int, Rock, MD
Ph.D. University of South Africa
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Postby Jimmy » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:39 pm

Jake_A wrote:...alleged disgusting/unethical/insincere actions of ONE person. Is it?...


It's all been proven, nothing is alleged. I have better research skills than that! You should too!

Pax tibi!
Jimmy
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Postby mineralhh » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:53 pm

It is obvious from previous postings that Robert Hill is not among the smarter ones. But that is just beyong anything. One needs to consider how frustrated he has to be in his quest of being recognized and accepted. It is sad that he doesn't seem to find the recognition he desires in his family or with hobbies. That is a really poor fellow.
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Postby uncle janko » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:55 pm

What is getting lost in all this pious blatherskite is that The Rev Dr Dr Hill has never dissociated himself from the person(s) responsible for the harassment of Professor Gollin and his family. There is nothing good about this latest nonsense from The Rev Dr Dr Hill. I would never wittingly associate myself with such persons or knowingly commend anything they or their associates do. As for ruling out every last unaccredited school--that's a straw man used by fraudsters and stalkers. Nobody does that. To imply that this board does so is a lie fostered by people who see nothing wrong with criminality. Such persons are no friends of the small number of legitimate ethical unaccredited schools. In fact, such persons are the worst enemies of legitimate unaccredited schools; by their statements and their vile actions they make fast the equation UA = mill.

Stalkers and their associates can go to hell.

Dr Clifton's great kindness has overcome his good judgement in this matter.

As to Mr White, I suspect no one had to do more professional cleanup than I when his other activities were brought to light. However, I indicated on this board after a certain point that I would not discuss his activities further. I am secure enough in my perspective on them--the perspective of all sane and decent people--that I need not reasssure myself by reiteration of it.
Doing good, doing well, raising hope and raising hell. Janko Shave.
"Airplane music? Just like music for big bees, only louder."--Arnold Schoenberg
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Postby Hungry Ghost » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:55 pm

I just looked at 'DLT' and my overwhelming impression was of bitterness and resentment. Whoever runs that board is extremely angry. I wonder why. Has somebody's doubtful DL enterprise suffered some recent reverses that are being blamed on the people here?
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Postby nosborne48 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:25 pm

Oooo! I LOVED the first post in this thread! Oooo! Oooo! :D
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Postby Tim D » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:25 am

The forum is the same old rehashed stuff from AED and the military board..Very uneventful really..Just a fresh coat of paint on the old barn door really.
The Village Idiot
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Postby North » Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:51 am

Hungry Ghost wrote:I just looked at 'DLT' and my overwhelming impression was of bitterness and resentment. Whoever runs that board is extremely angry. I wonder why. Has somebody's doubtful DL enterprise suffered some recent reverses that are being blamed on the people here?


Yes...the site is rather bizarre (useless except for venting). Reminds of the the Capellasucks stuff. AED deja vu when it devolved. Someone has a rather bitter and sad life eaten up with Dr. Bear and others. How can someone be so obssessed?? This person must be making themselves ill.

I read one of Dr's Bear books about 15 years ago or so (I was an enlisted guy with a bachelors degree). I NEVER got the idea that he was encouraging anyone topursue an unaccredited doctorate over an accredited one. Seemed to me that anyone with common sense reading it realized that Bear was saying among unaccredited options here are some of the better with limitations. Zeesh. It was not rocket science. It is rather strange to critcize Bear 15 or more years later for his changing opinions as education (DL changed). In fact the opposite would be true. If he held the same opinions without regard to the changing territory he would be outdated and up for critcism.

For some people those unaccredited options worked. Jimmy got a PhD that has been quite useful to him & as I understand due to regulations at the time qualifed for licensure. That degree therefore was an affordable, career enhancing option at a time with limited and very expensive options. The same situation may not have been true for Jimmy today. Their CPU degrees aided Gray and DeAngelis to make money and enhance their careers. CPU later went downhill but that is not Dr. Bear's fault.

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Postby uncle janko » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:24 pm

That's an outhouse, not a barn.
Doing good, doing well, raising hope and raising hell. Janko Shave.
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