Andersonville Theological Seminary

Discussions on the value or merit of unaccredited programs and institutions.

Re: Andersonville Theological Seminary

Postby Bill » Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:37 pm

Andersonville is a bit difficult to evaluate from its website. I did not see a faculty roster, entry requirements for doctoral programs, or descriptions of doctoral level courses. That is a worry ; also a worry is the ATS' claim of accreditation by TWA--and here I thought that was an airlines.
Bill Grover
Faculty, http://www.satsonline.org
BA,(Bible),ThB -1966, SCTS
MA (Religion)- 1968, PL Naz Uni
Tea Creds USD (Lang Arts)-1969/OSU (Spec Ed)1978
MDiv (Equiv)-1992 and ThM (Biblical Studies)-1994, Western Seminary
D.Th. (Theology)-2005 Unizul
Bill
Senior Member
 
Posts: 708
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:48 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: Andersonville Theological Seminary

Postby 4theLord » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:02 pm

My dear friends,
I am shocked at all of YOU who have blasted this seminary or anyother one like it. You have violated the basic element of YOUR agreement to come onto this forum. Most of you have verbally ABUSED this seminary, which I might add is completly LEGAL in the eyes of the state that it is in. Has anyone of you bothered to look beyond the books or are you so binded by the secular world and all of its accrediations. Does this seminary teach God's Word or mans? A seminary is supposed to focus on teaching Gods Word and prepare one for service in the Lords service. I am only sorry that I did not notice all this before now, still though each one of you should be ashamed and owe this seminary an apology. I would remind each one you that a man in the Bible once told the sanhadrein counsel, "If this man be of God then let us leave him alone, If it be of man then it will fail ,but if he be of God then we will be fighting against God Himself." I paraphrasied this of course, but you should get the point!
4theLord
New Member
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:45 pm

Re: Andersonville Theological Seminary

Postby Bill Huffman » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:15 pm

Being legal is a very weak argument. All that means is that the owners aren't vulnerable to jail time for running the school. It proves nothing about the quality of the program or the school.

Trying to shame people into liking a school also seems to be a very strange approach.

Of course, claiming to know the mind of God and knowing that God would approve this seminary (and any other like it) is a wonderfully strong argument. :roll:
Bill Huffman
Senior Member
 
Posts: 846
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:56 am
Location: San Diego

Re: Andersonville Theological Seminary

Postby nosborne48 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:16 pm

Nice piece of satire, 4! :D
Una cosa mala nunca muere.
nosborne48
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4145
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:42 am

Re: Andersonville Theological Seminary

Postby Damon Rambo » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:34 pm

Looks like a mill. I have also talked to people who have attended ATS, as well as accredited Seminaries. They have said that while ATS does require SOME course work, the course work is not equivalent to an accredited degree.

If one wants a degree for their own edification, that does not have accreditation, why not do a free or relatively free course of study at somewhere like Nations University (www.nationsu.org)? Why spend such a large amount of money on a relatively useless degree?
Creation WV Cert. ICR
BRS Nations U
BTh. SA Theological Seminary
MA Religious Studies Nations U
Language Studies in Koine Greek and Hebrew New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary
M. Div., High Distinction, Liberty Theological Seminary
Damon Rambo
New Member
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:54 am

Re: Andersonville Theological Seminary

Postby revgabel » Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:36 pm

Since I have attended Florida Baptist Theological College, a fully accredited college and Andersonville, I can tell you this, you get out of it what you put in it. I took classes at Andersonville for a Masters in Pastoral Counseling. It was to help in my work at the church. Yes the classes are on CD's and the test are simple. But then again, my daughter is taking classes at a Auburn University online with open book test. Four of her classes are all on DVD with only a written paper due that will be graded by a TA. If you take the classes at Andersonville and do the prep work and followup work as you would with a college at a traditional seminary you will learn the same. But it will be up to you. I had guys in my Classes at FBTC that just wanted to get by and that was it. There are good cases on both sides, but it comes down to the person who is taking the class, will he or she, do all they can to learn what they need to help reach the world for Christ. That is our goal right?
revgabel
New Member
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:24 pm

Re: Andersonville Theological Seminary

Postby Bill Huffman » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:02 pm

revgabel wrote:Since I have attended Florida Baptist Theological College, a fully accredited college and Andersonville, I can tell you this, you get out of it what you put in it. I took classes at Andersonville for a Masters in Pastoral Counseling. It was to help in my work at the church. Yes the classes are on CD's and the test are simple. But then again, my daughter is taking classes at a Auburn University online with open book test. Four of her classes are all on DVD with only a written paper due that will be graded by a TA. If you take the classes at Andersonville and do the prep work and followup work as you would with a college at a traditional seminary you will learn the same. But it will be up to you. I had guys in my Classes at FBTC that just wanted to get by and that was it. There are good cases on both sides, but it comes down to the person who is taking the class, will he or she, do all they can to learn what they need to help reach the world for Christ. That is our goal right?


Wrong, a school shares a responsibility with the student to educate the student but also to the rest of society that when the school graduates someone, that society can be sure that the graduate has been educated. If a school doesn't ensure the later then it is a diploma mill.
Bill Huffman
Senior Member
 
Posts: 846
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:56 am
Location: San Diego

Re: Andersonville Theological Seminary

Postby doctor doolittle » Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:27 pm

"Colleges" or "Universities" that do not meet the standards for accreditation often invent an accrediting agency for their own situation. For example, if I ran "The Dr. Doolittle School of Biblical Studies," people would ask me "Are you accredited?" Rather than just saying, "No, of course not," I might create another institution called "The International Commission on Accreditation (ICA)," and issue myself an "accreditation certificate" to hang on my wall. {I invented the ICA thing; hope there's no one really using that name; if so it is unintentional]. Now, I can say that I am accredited. But, the big question is, "Accredited by whom?" There are relatively few legitimate accrediting agencies that are generally recognized or accepted. In the Southeastern U.S., accreditation by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS - a division of AdvancEd), is highly respected. Most mail order schools cannot hope to meet the standards for SACS accreditation. While there are some legitimate and honestly accredited distance education programs these days, there are an equal number of scams, especially online. Be careful. A diploma from the "Doolittle School of Biblical Studies" won't do anything for you--anywhere you'd want to go, even if it is "accredited" by the International Commission on Accreditation (ICA). The following should tip you off that you may NOT be dealing with a legitimate "college" or "university."
(1) They offer academic credit for "life experience."
(2) They offer graduate degrees (masters or doctorates) without first requiring you to earn a bachelors degree.
(3) They offer the chance to earn a degree in an unreasonably short period of time, (eg., a doctorate in just one year)
(4) They offer you the option to pay tuition in one lump sum at a large discount and then receive mail your diploma by mail. ("Grab the money and run")
(5) They do not have a real campus with buildings, offices, dorms, or real professors that you may visit. This should at least raise a question.
(6) Their faculty do not have earned masters and or doctorate degrees from recognized, legitimate universities.
(7) The program they offer simply seems too good to be true: too cheap, too fast, tooo much--compared to other institutions.
(8) They will not provide you with references, including former graduates, who can vouch for the quality of the school.
BE CAREFUL. DISTANCE LEARNING IS FINE. BUT....MAKE SURE IT IS LEGITIMATE. OTHERWISE, IT WILL BE WORSE THAN USELESS. IT WILL BE A JOKE!
doctor doolittle
New Member
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:04 pm

Re: Andersonville Theological Seminary

Postby Jimmy » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:59 pm

Most of your points are true for some RA and NA schools. So, what's your point?
Jimmy
___________________
Rev. James W. Clifton
Pastor, St. John's Evangelical Lutheran Church
American Free Soil Party

The Hunger Site
Jimmy
Senior Member
 
Posts: 5979
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:11 pm

Re: Andersonville Theological Seminary

Postby levicoff » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:23 am

doctor doolittle wrote:"Colleges" or "Universities" that do not meet the standards for accreditation often invent an accrediting agency for their own situation.

[Remainder mercifully snipped.]

It's a shame when things come down to this, but I've learned to suspect almost every new member of this forum of being a bullshit artist - it's almost as if the DLT crowd's latest tactic is to come up with new identities and post tripe here. And that reflects poorly on the legitimate new posters here at DD.

The writer of the original post in this thread may or may not be legit, but he or she apparently is too dumb to realize that most (though not all) of the people who post on DD are long-timers at the distance education game. Thus, this thread consists of elementary tripe that is hardly at the level of a middle school (let alone high school) term paper. Moreover, it could be construed that the writer has used the old technque of merely paraphrasing material that has been previously published.

Perhaps it is coincidental (and I would not presume that the writer used me as his or her source), but see if this seems to echo the original post at all - it's from the accreditation chapter in Name It & Frame It - which, at this point, I wrote almost 20 years ago.

While I hope that I don't appear to be encouraging this, the easiest way to understand how a degree mill operates is to learn how to start one. As we begin our journey, I can offer only one piece of advice: kids, don't try this at home.

Imagine, if you will, that I want to establish a college that will grant non-traditional degrees in religion or ministry by mail. We'll call my school Levicoff Bible College and Theological Seminary.

The first thing I do is incorporate Levicoff Bible College and Theological Seminary as a non-profit corporation. There is no special procedure for this; I merely complete a form called "Articles of Incorporation" that spells out the goals, purposes, and mission statement of my school, then file it with my state incorporation bureau along with a small filing fee.<4> If I live in a state that does not regulate religious schools, I do not have to pass any qualitative criteria or even file notice of my specific intention to offer academic degrees; the religious status of my school provides me with an ideal exemption from policies which affect secular academic institutions.

I then design a curriculum for the degree of Bachelor of Arts in Christian Studies. For each course I choose a textbook (which I may even offer for sale in my own school's "bookstore"), write a one or two-page syllabus that asks moderately easy questions, and perhaps require a term paper of five or six pages. I'll charge enough to make a profit, but not so much that I won't be able to compete with legitimate colleges.

With a little bit of variation, I can also adapt my program to offer additional degrees such as Bachelor of Science in Bible, Bachelor of Christian Counseling, or Bachelor of Pastoral Studies. Then I'll be able to offer my students a discount on "dual-degree" programs.

Since my school is a Bible college and seminary, I then design, with minimal effort, additional "degree" programs at the master's and doctoral levels. Even if I didn't have a master's or doctorate degree myself, there is nothing that legally precludes me from granting those degrees to other people. (Or, for that matter, to myself.)

I now have my very own university offering degrees from the bachelor's through doctorate levels. All I need to do is advertise. If I want a Christian clientele, the logical thing for me to do is simply place ads in major religious magazines such as Christianity Today, Charisma, and Christian Century.

"But surely," you might say, "those magazines screen their advertisers to guarantee the integrity of the product or service being advertised."

Not true, I'm afraid. Even Christian magazines are in business to make money, and the ones listed here have all accepted advertising, both display and classified, from degree mills. Simply because a school advertises in a credible magazine doesn't mean that the school itself is credible.

But wait. There's just one thing missing - accreditation! After all, if I can advertise my school as being "fully accredited," then I'll certainly be able to draw more students. No problem; I have several options at my disposal.

My first option is to apply for accreditation from an unrecognized accreditor such as the Accrediting Commission International for Schools, Colleges, and Theological Seminaries or one of the many other accreditation mills that specialize in approving Bible schools.<5>

My second option is to form a second non-profit corporation which I'll call the American Accrediting Association for Bible Colleges and Seminaries (one of the few names that hasn't been used by a fake accreditor yet). I can serve as the president of both Levicoff Bible College and Seminary and the American Accrediting Association; no one will know the difference. Then I can simply use my accrediting association to accredit my Bible college. (If you think I'm kidding, try not to laugh. It's a common tactic used by religious degree mills.)

As a third option, I can call my local regional accrediting association, as well as the American Association of Bible Colleges and the Association of Theological Schools, and ask them to send me information on the requirements for institutional accreditation. Then I'll be able to state in my catalog, "Levicoff Bible College and Seminary is in dialogue with the regional association, AABC, and ATS, regarding accreditation." I may have stretched the truth, but legally I haven't lied.

Unfortunately, the average educational consumer hasn't learned about institutional legitimacy or accreditation, and will sincerely believe that the "degrees" I offer are credible. In truth, with a degree from Levicoff Bible College and Seminary plus fifty cents, you'll be able to buy about half a cup of coffee. Without the fifty cents, my college's degrees will be worth nothing.

Also unfortunately, chances are that you will enroll in my fake school, work toward and even earn your degree, and be out of hundreds or even thousands of dollars before you even realize that your degree is worth nothing.

This is all very basic stuff, and has been written, in one style or another, by every professional writer in this field, including John Bear, Marcy Thorson, me, and even Rick Walston.

So all I can say, Doctor Doolittle, is . . . don't waste our time. So far, all you're doing is living up to your username. :lol:
levicoff
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1168
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:59 pm
Location: Somewhere in a truck

Re: Andersonville Theological Seminary

Postby Jack » Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:17 am

Steve - I can't help feeling that your post is incomplete without one of those Snoopy pictures you used to use in your signature line.
Jack
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3172
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:33 am

Re: Andersonville Theological Seminary

Postby Bill Huffman » Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:37 am

Jack wrote:Steve - I can't help feeling that your post is incomplete without one of those Snoopy pictures you used to use in your signature line.


Yea! Wasn't it a snoopy typing that was made out of text characters?
Bill Huffman
Senior Member
 
Posts: 846
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:56 am
Location: San Diego

Re: Andersonville Theological Seminary

Postby levicoff » Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:24 am

Bill Huffman wrote:
Jack wrote:Steve - I can't help feeling that your post is incomplete without one of those Snoopy pictures you used to use in your signature line.


Yea! Wasn't it a snoopy typing that was made out of text characters?

Wow . . . you guys are dating yourselves (and me). No puns intended.

Yep, it was an ASCII-based text rendering of Snoopy that I used to use on the old AED newsgroup (and in the DL FAQ on that group that I wrote as an alternative version to the Rita Laws-penned FAQ).

I stopped using it when the FAQ and other posts were lifted to other sites - Snoopy was done in a fixed font, but other sites tended to use proportionally spaced fonts (like Times Roman or Arial), which threw the drawing out of proportion.

Alas, ASCII text art (some of which was very elaborate) is a thing of the past, having been replaced by JPG's.
levicoff
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1168
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:59 pm
Location: Somewhere in a truck

Re:

Postby Damon Rambo » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:58 am

Jimmy wrote:
Secondly, I will disassociate the school from the National Christian Counselors' Association.


Why? I certainly what alternative org. is there, for Christians who believe people should be counseled out of things like homosexuality?

Third, no master's programs should have introductory courses.


Jimmy, every Seminary that I know of, from Dallas Theological Seminary to Southern, to Liberty, has Intro courses in their Master's degree programs. The assumption is that the person has a secular bachelor's degree. this is why the M.Div. is so massive (90 hours +)

Fourth, the MMin program should have more than two courses in systematic theology and the course on salvation should be included in one of the systematic theology courses.


Systematic Theology I and II is standard. Not sure of your problem here. Some schools have a Sys. Theo. 3, but that is rare.

However, having said all of this, I believe Andersonville is one step short of a mill.
Creation WV Cert. ICR
BRS Nations U
BTh. SA Theological Seminary
MA Religious Studies Nations U
Language Studies in Koine Greek and Hebrew New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary
M. Div., High Distinction, Liberty Theological Seminary
Damon Rambo
New Member
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:54 am

Re: Re:

Postby Jimmy » Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:23 pm

Damon,

I have addressed the National Christian Counselor's Association more than a few times. Please do a search to see my objections to it.

While I believe homosexuality is sinful, I get sick and tired of those on the far right of the religious spectrum treating this behavior like it's the greatest sin one can commit. I don't see anything in the New Testament that states it's the greatest sin. I see lying to the Holy Spirit and blaspheming the Holy Spirit as the greatest of all sins. Christians would do more good for Christ if they spent all the time wasted on focusing on homosexuality fighting against domestic violence, addictions, child abuse, povery, ignorance, disease, spiritual abuse, etc.

As far as introductory courses for master's level programs, please list specifics. You have a proclivity for speaking in generalities.

Take care.
Jimmy
___________________
Rev. James W. Clifton
Pastor, St. John's Evangelical Lutheran Church
American Free Soil Party

The Hunger Site
Jimmy
Senior Member
 
Posts: 5979
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:11 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Unaccredited Programs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 1 guest

cron