US State department legalization service

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US State department legalization service

Postby Intstudent » Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:38 am

I am an international student applying for master programs in business studies. i have seen distance learning universities that state that their degrees can be legalized/verified by the US state department. in fact there is a separate fee for US state department legalization service which is offered by the university. i would like to know what US state department legalization/verification means.

many thanks,

Intstudent
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Re: US State department legalization service

Postby Eric » Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:15 am

In some countries this service is needed to confirm that your diploma is not a fake.

This service can be abused and is abused by diploma mills who some how confuse their victims that this serves as something that means you got real degree. this is not the case.

It only states that your document and the copies you have made apostles are matching the original.
So validated Diploma Mill degree is just that diploma mill degree.
But this is also a very important service for international students who get real accredited recognized degree. In their home country there maybe be requirement for Apostle degree.

According to the Hague Convention held on October 5th, 1961, diplomas, certificates and transcripts issued by universities in one country can be officially legalised in other countries if they are accompanied by a notarial certification.
The Apostille, which authenticates the signatures and stamps appearing on the document is becoming Increasingly popular. Countries around the world are adopting this validation procedure for its simplicity and worldwide acceptance.

Most students throughout their college careers require several copies of official transcripts, along with other important documents like degrees, statements of study major, not to mention medical records. Contrary to popular belief, just because a document is issued from a major university or hospital does not make it recognized worldwide. It is for this reason that Apostille documentation certification services have become so popular. International students are often granted entry to the U.S. through temporary student visa passes, and thus will be forced to return to their native country after completing their studies. Returning home without having the proper documents legalized can be cause for concern. Apostille services relieve the concerns of international students that will need their degrees, and important documents legalized for world wide acceptance. “An Apostille service will legalize most important documents like driver licenses, medical records, educational degrees and transcripts for members of the Hague Convention Treaty. For those wanting documents legalized that come from other countries not included in the list of Hague Convention Treaty nations, one can use a similar service known as an Embassy Legalization. Documents International LLC can provide you with the apostille and embassy legalization services you need to use your documents worldwide.

Here is an example of such service for students at University of Richmond

http://registrar.richmond.edu/services/ ... tille.html

Another one at University of Rochester

http://www.rochester.edu/registrar/apostille.html
Eric

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Re: US State department legalization service

Postby Hungry Ghost » Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:25 pm

Intstudent wrote:I am an international student applying for master programs in business studies. i have seen distance learning universities that state that their degrees can be legalized/verified by the US state department. in fact there is a separate fee for US state department legalization service which is offered by the university. i would like to know what US state department legalization/verification means.


In a word, nothing.

The United States State Department does NOT 'legalize' diplomas earned from United States universities. The State Department does not officially verify that universities are academically sound or that diplomas weren't just purchased over the internet.

What they will do is notarize documents to verify that they are originals and not copies or forgeries.

There are countries in the world where employers and licensing boards expect applicants to produce actual physical diplomas. (I've heard that in Latin America, graduates sometimes mount their diplomas in ornate cases.) So there's some interest in ensuring that the document that's produced isn't just a forged reproduction of some university's diploma. In the past, that was a big reason why diplomas often had all those elaborate seals on them. Today, if a diploma (or any kind of legal or business document) originated in a different country, people will sometimes want to see an official verification from the originating country that the document is genuine. That's called an 'apostile' and it's essentially an international notary's stamp.

Please notice this important fact: The verification only applies to the document being genuine. It does NOT imply any official government endorsement of the content of the document. In the case of what purports to be a university diploma, if that diploma comes from a degree-mill, if it was simply purchased and has no academic value, then accompanying it with an apostile simply tells people overseas that it's a real worthless degree-mill diploma, and not a fake one. It still doesn't have any academic credibility.

Most universities have apostile services for those foreign students who need it. Americans who want to work or do business in other countries sometimes need it too. But it's a very minor thing. If an internet "university" prominently advertises it, and especially if they try to spin it into the claim that the State Department is 'verifying' and 'legalizing' the university's diplomas, then that's probably a pretty good indication that the school is fraudulent. Prospective students probably need to be careful.

Here in the United States the issue rarely if ever comes up, since employers rarely if ever want to see people's actual physical diplomas. What the employers will do instead is contact the university's records office directly, and inquire about whether a particular individual graduated from that university and about what degree they received. It's typically done over the phone.

I've never had any occasion to show my bachelors diploma to anyone (except my mother) and I'm not really sure where it is any more. (In a box in the basement, I think.)
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Re: US State department legalization service

Postby nosborne48 » Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:49 pm

In my ultimately unsuccessful pursuit of an LL.M. from the University of London, I was required to produce my original degree diplomas to the British Council (sic) for them to certify copies to be submitted to the school. They also wanted transcripts but the diplomas seemed to be the biggest thing.
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Re: US State department legalization service

Postby Intstudent » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:27 am

I am thankful to all contributors. From what i understand, the apostille, US state dept legalization/embassy legalization are one and the same thing.

Apostille is required if the intended country of use of the degree is a Hague convention member. US state dept legalization and embassy legalization is required if the country of intended use is not a Hague convention member.

In both cases, the notary ( for apostille ) and the US state dept/embassy official ( in case of legalization service) state that he/they have seen the original and that the copy enclosed is a copy of the original.

i hope i have got the detail right, please correct me if wrong,

many thanks,

intstudent
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Re: US State department legalization service

Postby Tark » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:22 pm

I think you are basically correct.

The important thing to recognize is that the apostille/legalization process does not certify the validity of anything written on the document. It only certifies that the document was copied accurately.

If you bought a phony degree from a phony school, you could submit your phony diploma for an apostille. Then you would have an official, authentic copy of your phony diploma. But the degree described on the diploma would still be phony and worthless.
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Re: US State department legalization service

Postby Intstudent » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:23 pm

I thank all contributors for their highly valued inputs. The main aspect is that legalization is a misnomer. The word should be attestation. Whether it is apostille or US state dept legalization, they are attesting the documents, they are not legalizing the documents.

The main question for me now is that i have completed an MBA, a few years ago from an online university
based in the US ( the university is incorporated in Delaware and is privately accredited, it is not accredited by CHEA approved accreditor ). I have utilized the degree in my country and did not require apostille or US state dept legalization/attestation. I now have a job offer in the UAE which is not a Hague convention member, so no apostille is required, but US state dept legalization (attestation) is required. Do i have to send the documents to an agency in the US that does these US state dept attestations or can the US state dept attestation (or its equivalent) be done by the US embassy here in my country.

Contributions and advice would be highly appreciated.

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Re: US State department legalization service

Postby johann » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:12 pm

I suggest you pay close attention to Hungry Ghost's and Tark's postings - in which you are advised that the US Government can only attest to the fact that your diploma is genuine and not a forgery. It will NOT attest to the academic value of the school - good or bad.

As I have often written before, I am NOT against schools simply because they are unaccredited. There are some that do a good job. In fact, many have gone on to become accredited; others, by their own choosing, have not. But - your mileage may vary. Such degrees (even from the best of the unaccreds) are either prohibited or have very low utility in many U.S. States and also abroad.

Now - Incorporated in Delaware and "accredited" by an unrecognized agency, you say? Those are two bad signs for your school. "Bad" schools love Delaware, because it is incorporation-friendly and, I believe, does not frown unduly on the use of the word "University." Some other incorporation-friendly jurisdictions, e.g. Wyoming, have restricted the use of that word. In my experience, only shady, millish schools claim accreditation from some unrecognized outfit. Often, the "accreditor" is under the same ownership as the school! I don't know what specific school you got this degree from, but I like it less as the minutes tick by.

Don't make the mistake of trying to pass a really bad degree for a good one in the UAE. Fines and jail. See here:

http://diplomamillnews.blogspot.com/200 ... nt-of.html

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Re: US State department legalization service

Postby johann » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:50 pm

johann wrote:In my experience, only shady, millish schools claim accreditation from some unrecognized outfit.


Yeah, what I said. I should have added "but in the past, some of these "bad" schools continued to claim these bogus creds up until the day they were shriven - made instantly pure and good on receipt of DETC accreditation. Talk about "Go and sin no more..." :)

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Re: US State department legalization service

Postby Intstudent » Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:43 pm

Thanks for the reply. I have not got my MBA from a diploma mill/fake school. I have completed a structured program of study and gained my degree by clearing all the academic requirements. My employers here in my country and in UAE are aware of the fact that the University is privately accredited, as i have mentioned this in my resume. UAE does not require apostille, but does require US state dept legalization ( attestation) , can this ( or its equivalent) be done by the US embassy here in my country or do i have to sent my academic documents to a document attesting company/consultancy in the US to get the US state dept attestation done ?

Please let me know regarding this, once again thank you for the contribution.

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Hunh?

Postby nosborne48 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:28 pm

The term "privately accredited" is new to me. What could it possibly mean? Virtually all U.S. accrediting agencies (except the State of New York and maybe the California State Board of Bar Examiners) are private entities. Some are recognized as legitimate by the U.S. government, some are recognized by CHEA (another private entity), some by both, and some by neither. It's that last category that is worrisome; I hope that's not what you mean by "privately accredited".

As to attestation...contact the U.S. Consulate closest to where you live. They might be able to assist you.
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Re: US State department legalization service

Postby johann » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:18 pm

Hi

I was wrong - Delaware is more flexible about Corporate names than most states, but not about the use of the word "University." Below is a link to a page that advertises Delaware incorporations for as little as $9 plus State fees - which start at $89. I see on the site that none of these four words can be in a corporate name: Bank, Trust, University or College. Lots of other words that can be used - "Institute" is entirely acceptable and on the list of 15 terms, any one of which can be used to signify a corporation.

(Despite this, I distinctly remember we recently discussed an ostensibly overseas Distance University that was incorporated in Delaware - perhaps or perhaps not using the word University in its name - I can't remember. It certainly conferred degrees ...so anything's possible. I'll keep looking.)

http://www.websitetemplatereviews.com/d ... elaware-de

I'm curious about the "private accreditor" too. Who could it be... :?

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Re: Found 'em - lots of Delaware UN-versities

Postby johann » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:46 pm

Didn't take long. Several non-starters we've discussed in the recent past, all incorporated in Delaware:

Concordia College and University (the BAD Concordia - "Mud Weasel" per Dr. Gollin)
Carolus Magnus U. (College of Multinational Chazerai - a campus in every garage)
Personal Branding U. (Also in Suriname - site now gone 'bye 'bye)
University of New Castle (Delaware and England)

Also, according to Accredibase stats (as given in our forum) 8% of US-based degree mills were incorporated in Delaware.

Hmmm... Delaware incorporation of a school plus "private" accreditation (i.e. non-recognized by USDoE or CHEA?) might very well not add up to the best of news... I hope this student's efforts in pursuing his degree weren't wasted...

Particularly if it's going to be used in the UAE -- I hope I'm jumping to false conclusions. It'd be nice to be wrong about a school, this time...

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Re: US State department legalization service

Postby nosborne48 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:50 pm

Now I'm officially confused. The OP began by saying that he was an "international student applying for master programs in business studies" but now he's telling us that he has "completed an MBA, a few years ago from an online university", all the while refusing to name the school or schools he attended/intends to attend.

So what's going on, here?

Intstudent, please be up front and tell us:

-did you or did you not earn an MBA degree from a U.S. school?
-if so, what is the name of that school?
-why are you asking us about attestation? Is it because you want to know how to verify the existence of a credential or are you engaging in a desperate attempt to prove to your employers that your unaccredited degree is somehow not worthless?

You can, of course, choose to hide behind anonymity (which I personally think will be a badge of bad faith) but if your degree has any value at all, the people who can tell you that and explain how to demonstrate the fact to your employers are regular posters here and will advise you to the best of their ability.

OTOH, if the degree is worthless (as appears to be the case) you are better off knowing it now and saving yourself further embarrassment at the very least. Believe me; some of the posters here put considerable money and time into earning worthless degrees and learned a great deal from bitter experience. You are not alone in being bilked.

(Wild guess: Kennedy-Western?)
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Re: US State department legalization service

Postby Intstudent » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:58 pm

I thank all contributors. All that i would like to say about my MBA is that it has been awarded after a complete program of study.
The University is not a diploma mill/fake school. It is incorporated in Delaware and has been privately accredited. By private accreditation i mean to say that the accrediting agency is not a government ( chea or detc) recognized/approved accreditor.
These facts have been mentioned in my CV, my employers here in my country, as well as the UAE employers know about this fact.

As suggested by nosborne48, i will contact the nearest consulate for help with the attestation.

Thanks to all contributors for their opinion.

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