Baker College vs. TIU

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Re: Baker College vs. TIU

Postby SteveFoerster » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:15 pm

levicoff wrote:The general take is that Excelsior is credible, but not as credible since they privatized several years ago (changing their name to Excelsior from Regents College of the University of the State of New York).

Never having heard this from anyone other than you, I think it would be safer to that that's your take on it, rather than the general take. But either way, I'm curious why you think so. Did they used to receive positive attention in the '90s than they now lack?

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Re: Baker College vs. TIU

Postby levicoff » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:36 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
levicoff wrote:The general take is that Excelsior is credible, but not as credible since they privatized several years ago (changing their name to Excelsior from Regents College of the University of the State of New York).

Never having heard this from anyone other than you, I think it would be safer to that that's your take on it, rather than the general take. But either way, I'm curious why you think so. Did they used to receive positive attention in the '90s than they now lack?

Oh, bother sic . . . Before this opens up a ridiculous can of worms and diverts the thread, I'll review my statement above: My take (rather than the general take) is that Excelsior lost some of its credibility. There. I'm satisfied with that.

Why do I say that? They were a state college and are now a private college. Of the big three, they were the only ones who went through that process. Is Excelsior credible? Yes - in fact, I don't know what their status is on the food chain now, but at one time they were the largest of the big three. Unlike Excelsior, TESC and Charter Oak are still state schools. And I find that gives them an added level of credibility that Excelsior no longer has.

By the way, I looked at Excelsior, then Regents, when I decided to go for a degree non-traditionally in 1985. (At the time I looked, Charter Oak had been restricted to Connecticut residents. But I was also impressed with them, esp. in their granting of credit for the GRE exams.) I was sufficiently impressed to consider Excelsior strongly, but had two preferenes that made me go with TESC: First, TESC seemed more flexible on the issue of portfolio credits (keeping in mind that I earned 98 s.h. that way), and second, that TESC was located an hour from where I lived at the time while Excelsior was some six hours from where I lived.

In short, I'm opining that Excelsior is good, but at one time they were better. Even though they have the same name as an obsolete packing material.

No less, no more than that.
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Re: Baker College vs. TIU

Postby Tark » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:07 am

in fact, I don't know what their status is on the food chain now, but at one time they were the largest of the big three.

According to the US Dept of Education's "College Navigator" database, Excelsior is currently by far the largest of the "Big Three". Total enrollments for 2009-10:

34,629 Excelsior
18,206 TESC
2,029 COSC

Excelsior seems to be particularly dominant at the Associate's level. Associate's degrees issued in 2009-10:

3,132 Excelsior
501 TESC
61 COSC

At the bachelor's level, TESC is much closer. Bachelor's degrees issued in 2009-10:

2,759 Excelsior
2,108 TESC
408 COSC

At the master's level, COSC is not a player. Master's degrees issued in 2009-10:

172 Excelsior
115 TESC

Unlike Excelsior, TESC and Charter Oak are still state schools. And I find that gives them an added level of credibility that Excelsior no longer has.

On the other hand, as state schools, TESC and COSC may currently be facing more political and budgetary problems. There was serious consideration given to merging TESC out of existence in the most recent NJ state budget.
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Re: Baker College vs. TIU

Postby levicoff » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:55 am

Tark wrote:
Unlike Excelsior, TESC and Charter Oak are still state schools. And I find that gives them an added level of credibility that Excelsior no longer has.

On the other hand, as state schools, TESC and COSC may currently be facing more political and budgetary problems. There was serious consideration given to merging TESC out of existence in the most recent NJ state budget.

Great statistics - thanks. As I suspected, Excelsior is still way ahead in numbers. One reason, I suspect, is that they have always had more of a national following than TESC, which keys its advertising toward NJ and the surrounding areas. Excelsior has historically targeted the nursing profession, for example, while TESC at one time limited their BSN degrees to nurses who lived or worked in NJ (I don't think they still do this, but since I'm not in touch with the issue I wouldn't hazard a conclusion).

Another reason Excelsior had a big lead was that, unlike TESC, they granted credit for the GRE's. I am not aware of whether they still do, nor what the credit grants were in relation to COSC.

I may seem like I'm being abstract here, but that's intentional, since I no longer research these things at all. Hard as it is for me to conceive at times, I graduated from TESC almost 25 years ago, and I'm sure that all three institutions have undergone massive changes since that time.

I did, of course, monitor the speculation that TESC might be merged into another school. I think this is simply something that came up during the early days of the Christie administration, perhaps even before Gov. Christie (and his administration) was more familiar with TESC than he is today. TESC provided a more than satisfactory apologetic for their remaining a freestanding school, not the least of which is their national reputation, and the notion of merging them was appropriately dropped.

Frankly, I don't even remember why the NYS Regents dumped Excelsior (resulting in their privatization), which was a major player in the non-traditional game in the good ol' days. Remember, the reason I ultimately chose TESC over then-Regents was geographic convenience and a preference for their particular program model. While I have always been more than satisfied with my choice, it's obvious that there are plenty of folks around who, even today, choose Excelsior. Fortunately, since neither college has a football team, I never had to root for one over the other.
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Re: Baker College vs. TIU

Postby kavade » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:30 am

Thank you for all the info, folks. I had no idea Excelsior's enrollment was so large. Very interesting.
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For GREs, it's Charter Oak or bust

Postby SteveFoerster » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:55 pm

levicoff wrote:Another reason Excelsior had a big lead was that, unlike TESC, they granted credit for the GRE's. I am not aware of whether they still do, nor what the credit grants were in relation to COSC.

Excelsior used to offer a variable amount of credit for these on a sliding scale depending on how well one did. If you blew the doors off it you could earn 30 credit hours in a single afternoon. However, they're nearly done with their process of discontinuing that acceptance -- at this point you have to have enrolled there before last September, and you have until this September to submit your scores.

Meanwhile, COSC accepts them, but on a flat rate basis. You get 18 credits for Literature or Psychology and 24 credits for the STEM ones, and it's all or nothing depending on whether you score in the 40th percentile or better. I haven't heard there are any plans to discontinue acceptance of them.

-=Steve=-
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MA in Educational Technology Leadership, George Washington University
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Re: Baker College vs. TIU

Postby Tark » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:13 pm

I had no idea Excelsior's enrollment was so large

The most surprising finding for me was that COSC's enrollment is so small. Given that fact -- and the seeming ability of neighboring, much larger Excelsior to offer similar educational services to CT residents -- you have to wonder if COSC could be a tempting target in future budgetary fights.

COSC boasts that it charges significantly lower per-credit tuition, particularly for CT residents, than Excelsior does. But it seems possible that the state could set up a scholarship program, allowing CT residents to enroll at Excelsior for equally low tuition, for less than the cost to operate COSC.

For Fall 2010, COSC only had 2,278 students, and only 69% of these, or about 1,571 people, were CT residents. So it's not like a huge number of CT voters would be affected.

I'm not saying that this would necessarily be a good idea, just that it wouldn't surprise me if the idea was floated in Hartford some day.
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Re: Baker College vs. TIU

Postby SteveFoerster » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:24 pm

Tark wrote:I'm not saying that this would necessarily be a good idea, just that it wouldn't surprise me if the idea was floated in Hartford some day.

On the other hand, I'm not sure many politicians want their opponents to be able to say, "He hates education so much he voted to eliminate one of our state colleges! Think of the children!"

-=Steve=-
BS, Information Systems concentration, Charter Oak State College
MA in Educational Technology Leadership, George Washington University
PhD in Leadership, U. of the Cumberlands (in progress)
More about me at my site
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