Baker College vs. TIU

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Baker College vs. TIU

Postby loriegrose » Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:27 am

I have pretty much narrowed my search down to Baker College or TIU for obtaining my Bachelor's in Business Administration online. I live in California. Any thoughts on either of the two?
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Re: Baker College vs. TUI

Postby loriegrose » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:10 pm

Okay, I can't seem to edit my last post, so I'll post this correction. I meant TUI, not TIU! Anyway, I've decided against Baker College because I found out they do not offer books electronically and that is a major downfall for me. I like being able to carry my books around everywhere I go on a flash drive. I also like being able to do a search for whatever I am looking for. Do any of you know whether or not TUI offers electronic books?
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Re: Baker College vs. TIU

Postby Jonathan Whatley » Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:18 am

What schools have you - or anyone else reading - come across that actually do offer all the books required for a degree electronically?Post-secondary schools generally let whoever they let do this, individual professors or departmental curriculum design committees choose the best textbooks available in their own discretion, and increasingly these may be offered by their publishers in electronic form, but it is hardly guaranteed. Structuring a curriculum for a bachelor's degree - even with a full transfer in from an associate's degree, that's twenty courses at 3 semester hours each - would be fairly restrictive and hard to do well; heck, it still might be hard to even do it poorly.

Now, the Edinburgh Business School master's and certificate programs in business and management subjects of which I'm very fond are based entirely on a corpus of course binders all either custom-written or occasionally licensed and customized for the program, but it seems this was an enormous capital undertaking, supportable only because they sell them to students around the world in several languages in heavy volumes.

But is it really a good idea, I have to wonder, to make this a necessary or crucial condition for your bachelor's program?
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Electronic books

Postby loriegrose » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:34 pm

I understand what you are saying, Jonathan. For me, it is as necessary to have my books in electronic form as it is that I take my classes online. I work on my school work almost every minute of the day that I am not busy at work. I would be majorly hindered if I had to carry my books with me everywhere I went, and would not be able to bring them with me to many places I go.

Besides this, I often use the search mode on my computer to find what I am looking for. It has been very helpful for me to not have to spend valuable time searching through books For some it may not be a wise thing to make it part of my criteria for choosing a school, but for me it is. I could not have kept a 4.0 GPA during my associate's program had it not been for my electronic books. I am not all that smart; I just spend a tremendous amount of time on my school work.
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Re: Baker College vs. TIU

Postby levicoff » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:31 pm

Just a thought . . . Check out the websites of what we around 'dis here joint call "The Big Three" -- Thomas Edison State College (tesc.edu), Excelsior College (excelsior.edu), and Charter Oak State College (charteroak.edu). Since you'r in California and they're in NJ, NY, and CT respectively, it's unlikely that you would choose one of them. However, since they set some of the original standrds in distance education, lookingat their sites will give you some of the other credit-granting options out there such as testing out and portfolios.

My thinking is that you're both smarter and more experienced than you've given yourself credit for, and either option could speed up the process between the associate's and bachelor's. (For my B.A. in Humanities at TESC, I included 18 s.h. in business courses based on life experience. The made a nice fill-in for the free electives area on my transcript.)

You already know about the reputation of UOP in some quarters here, but there's no doubt that with their regional accreditation their coursework should all transfer to any RA bachelor's degree. Whatever school you go with, I'd advise one with a brick-and-mortar presence (rather than a so-called online university) - it will add to your credibility down the line.

BTW, welcome to DD. :D
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Re: Baker College vs. TIU

Postby loriegrose » Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:27 pm

levicoff wrote:Just a thought . . . Check out the websites of what we around 'dis here joint call "The Big Three" -- Thomas Edison State College (tesc.edu), Excelsior College (excelsior.edu), and Charter Oak State College (charteroak.edu). Since you'r in California and they're in NJ, NY, and CT respectively, it's unlikely that you would choose one of them. However, since they set some of the original standrds in distance education, lookingat their sites will give you some of the other credit-granting options out there such as testing out and portfolios.

My thinking is that you're both smarter and more experienced than you've given yourself credit for, and either option could speed up the process between the associate's and bachelor's. (For my B.A. in Humanities at TESC, I included 18 s.h. in business courses based on life experience. The made a nice fill-in for the free electives area on my transcript.)

You already know about the reputation of UOP in some quarters here, but there's no doubt that with their regional accreditation their coursework should all transfer to any RA bachelor's degree. Whatever school you go with, I'd advise one with a brick-and-mortar presence (rather than a so-called online university) - it will add to your credibility down the line.

BTW, welcome to DD. :D


Thanks you, Levicoff! I really appreciate your advice, and will further my research with this in mind. I certainly do have a lot of life experience, as I have many years in the field. Having some of that count toward my degree will save me time and money. And like you said, the brick and mortar presence could make a difference for me in the future. Thanks again! And thank you also for the welcome. :D

Lorie
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Re: Baker College vs. TIU

Postby Jonathan Whatley » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:00 pm

levicoff wrote:Whatever school you go with, I'd advise one with a brick-and-mortar presence (rather than a so-called online university) - it will add to your credibility down the line.

What do you mean by "brick-and-mortar presence" and "online university" in this context? If the litmus test were regularly offering on-the-ground courses or degrees, that would exclude the Big Three, but I'm not sure that's what you meant to do.
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Re: Baker College vs. TIU

Postby levicoff » Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:02 pm

Jonathan Whatley wrote:
levicoff wrote:Whatever school you go with, I'd advise one with a brick-and-mortar presence (rather than a so-called online university) - it will add to your credibility down the line.

What do you mean by "brick-and-mortar presence" and "online university" in this context? If the litmus test were regularly offering on-the-ground courses or degrees, that would exclude the Big Three, but I'm not sure that's what you meant to do.

Good question - I realized that myself after wrote it.

As many know, I have a bias against proprietary (for-profit) schools. TESC and Charter Oak are both state colleges, and I assume Excelsior (which was privatized a few years ago) is still a non-profit. All three have a significant history at this point and are credibly viewed in academe.

The schools I would avoid are those like UOP and the other "profits." Again, I realize that's subjective, but I can get away with that because I'm practically perfect in every way. Like Mary Poppins. I also freely admit that I have a bias against totally online degree programs, both because I perceive them as being dumbed down and because they tend to be Lone Ranger experiences for the student. (Even though TESC had no online program when I did my B.A., I didn't actually meet another TESC student until after I graduated - at an M.A. seminar for Vermont College, which, while low residency, at least had residencies where you could interact with your peers in person.)

If I have any point, it's that there is such a plethora of business degree programs out there that one doesn't have to settle for mediocrity. But one also has to factor in future plans - if a student, for example, intends to go on for, say, an M.B.A. or another graduate credential, you'll still have carte blanche with any RA undergrad degree (yes, including UOP).
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Re: Baker College vs. TIU

Postby loriegrose » Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:30 pm

levicoff wrote:
Jonathan Whatley wrote:
levicoff wrote:Whatever school you go with, I'd advise one with a brick-and-mortar presence (rather than a so-called online university) - it will add to your credibility down the line.

What do you mean by "brick-and-mortar presence" and "online university" in this context? If the litmus test were regularly offering on-the-ground courses or degrees, that would exclude the Big Three, but I'm not sure that's what you meant to do.

Good question - I realized that myself after wrote it.

As many know, I have a bias against proprietary (for-profit) schools. TESC and Charter Oak are both state colleges, and I assume Excelsior (which was privatized a few years ago) is still a non-profit. All three have a significant history at this point and are credibly viewed in academe.

The schools I would avoid are those like UOP and the other "profits." Again, I realize that's subjective, but I can get away with that because I'm practically perfect in every way. Like Mary Poppins. I also freely admit that I have a bias against totally online degree programs, both because I perceive them as being dumbed down and because they tend to be Lone Ranger experiences for the student. (Even though TESC had no online program when I did my B.A., I didn't actually meet another TESC student until after I graduated - at an M.A. seminar for Vermont College, which, while low residency, at least had residencies where you could interact with your peers in person.)

If I have any point, it's that there is such a plethora of business degree programs out there that one doesn't have to settle for mediocrity. But one also has to factor in future plans - if a student, for example, intends to go on for, say, an M.B.A. or another graduate credential, you'll still have carte blanche with any RA undergrad degree (yes, including UOP).


Do you suppose technology is advancing such that in another 10 years or so it will not matter to employers whether one's degree comes from an all-online university or not?

As for being a "Lone Ranger", this would not bother me. Honestly, I am in school for the degree, not for the lifelong friends.
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Re: Baker College vs. TIU

Postby levicoff » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:00 pm

loriegrose wrote:Do you suppose technology is advancing such that in another 10 years or so it will not matter to employers whether one's degree comes from an all-online university or not?

As for being a "Lone Ranger", this would not bother me. Honestly, I am in school for the degree, not for the lifelong friends.

Wow, the question alone could set off a magnum opus thread (that might actually be fun).

Keeping in mind that I'm against online degrees for the reasons I've already cited, I'd have to answer your question in one word: Yes. Not necessarily because technology is advancing per se, but because as the number of online degree recipients increases an they move into management, there will be more acceptance of online degrees - at least within the business community, which is not necessarily academically inclined per se. In other words, with more online grads moving into management - not because of their degrees but because they grow into management as they gain experience - there will be less of a "I paid my dues (with a traditional education), therefore you should, too."

My answer would not be the same for the social sciences or "helping" professions - there will always have to be a residential component for psychologists, attorneys, medical professionals (at least for their first degree), etc. (In some medical professions, post-grad degrees are already available online in fields such as pharmacy and physical therapy, for example).

But, I'm afraid, we will still end up with people who hold dumbed-down degrees, at least by earlier standards. I recently had a problem with a software glitch and called Microsoft to straighten it out. It was major in nature, and was fairly common to the latest update of their Streets & Trips program (which I obviously use a lot as I traipse around the country). The toll-free number I called rang, not to my surprise, in India.

Now, many would whine and moan that we have not only exported our manufacturing jobs, we are now exporting our technical support jobs, robbing God-fearing, apple pie-loving AmeriCANs of employment.

Not me. When you've got a software glitch, you want to talk to the person who can solve it. And, whether we like it or not, Asians are generally smarter than Americans. At that point, the only concern with economic impact I have is my own - the ability to get to a specific address in Chicago, New York, or Alabama, etc. And if the dude (or dude-ette) that fixes the problem happens to have an Indian accent and cooks with curry (yes, obviously I'm milking the stereotype), so be it. I respect intelligence - and the ability to solve problems without acting like a wazoo because the hardest thing he or she studied at college was "The Films of Keanu Reeves" (an actual course title from U. Cal. Berkeley a few years ago).

So, will there be more acceptance of online degrees as time goes on? Absolutely. But don't expect online degree holders to be our next great scientists - instead, based on economic and other factors here in the good ol' States - they will excel at such intricate tasks as using a Sharpie to write a slash through "WC" at Starbucks to signify no whipped cream in a mocha frap and, at least, being able to ring it up on their touch-pad cash registers.

By the way (speaking of dumbing down), a one time, in order to earn a Ph.D. (in anything, one had to learn at least two languages - usually continental or scholarly lingos that were common in academic research. By the time I did m Ph.D., I had no language requirement. And quite frankly, I doubt I would have been able to pull that off - other than getting by in a Franglais restaurant in Montreal (or ordering a pizza in French if I'm north of Montreal), my French sucks. (I know, there's a pun in there...) :lol: So there's some dumbing down I've never complained about (despite the late Sen. Paul Simon's brilliant book The Tongue-Tied American, which legitimately bemoans our lack of foreign language skills). But when it comes to online courses (and I've seen a few that are inane), I don't see even an undergrad education being as thorough as it can be when there is real interaction with professors and peers.
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Re: Baker College vs. TIU

Postby kavade » Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:41 am

I'd be interested to hear opinions on my situation, which involves Excelsior's MALS.

My undergrad degree is from the University of California. I need an MA - just about any humanities MA will work, I think, as long as the school is accredited.
I've about 20 years experience in my field, ESL, and I currently work overseas at a job that pays about twice what I could get in the States. But when I return to the California I'd be interested in working part time at my local community college. To do that I need an MA, preferably in English or ESL but I think my experience and
ESL certification will work when combined with a MALS. I think. So my question really is about the Excelsior MALS. With undergrad from UC, does it matter that the Master's would be from a place like Excelsior? My experience with them so far is that the place is workmanlike, but nothing more. For my purposes I think that is okay. Any opinions?
I've noticed some people here seem to like Excelsior, and at least one fellow seems openly hostile to the place. What's the general take on Excelsior?

Thanks.
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Re: Baker College vs. TIU

Postby levicoff » Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:59 am

kavade wrote:I'd be interested to hear opinions on my situation, which involves Excelsior's MALS.

My undergrad degree is from the University of California. I need an MA - just about any humanities MA will work, I think, as long as the school is accredited.
I've about 20 years experience in my field, ESL, and I currently work overseas at a job that pays about twice what I could get in the States. But when I return to the California I'd be interested in working part time at my local community college. To do that I need an MA, preferably in English or ESL but I think my experience and
ESL certification will work when combined with a MALS. I think. So my question really is about the Excelsior MALS. With undergrad from UC, does it matter that the Master's would be from a place like Excelsior? My experience with them so far is that the place is workmanlike, but nothing more. For my purposes I think that is okay. Any opinions?
I've noticed some people here seem to like Excelsior, and at least one fellow seems openly hostile to the place. What's the general take on Excelsior?

Thanks.

The general take is that Excelsior is credible, but not as credible since they privatized several years ago (changing their name to Excelsior from Regents College of the University of the State of New York). Nonetheless, they are regionally accredited, which is usually the bottom line.

A few suggestions for programs to check out as a comparison: Tho. Edison State College (disclosure: TESC is my B.A. alma mater) and Fort Hayes State University in Kansas. A third, and the one I would likely choose if I wanted an M.A. in Humanities: California State University at Dominguez Hills, which has one of the oldest and most credible grad programs in the field (and is also ione of the most flexible and reasonably priced). The CSU-DH program is a straight M.A. as opposed to an MALS.
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Re: Baker College vs. TIU

Postby kavade » Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:13 am

Thank you, Levicoff. Any chance, do you think, of Excelsior going belly up?
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Re: Baker College vs. TIU

Postby levicoff » Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:43 pm

kavade wrote:Thank you, Levicoff. Any chance, do you think, of Excelsior going belly up?

Nope. Along with TESC and Charter Oak (in CT), they're still one of "the big three." I've never heard any indication of problems on their part. When I say that they're not as credible as in the old days, I'm merely referring to general reputation (anecdotally) rather than their financial condition. When they privatized and did the name change, there were quite a few forum discussions about their new moniker being similar to the name of a packaging material (although it's also the motto of the State of New York).

Best bet: Look at the varioua M.A. Humanities or M.A.L.S. programs out there and make your choice based on the program model with which you are most comfortable. Let cost be a factor, but not the ultimate factor.
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Re: Baker College vs. TIU

Postby Jonathan Whatley » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:49 pm

The Virtual College at Fort Hays State University offers a Master of Liberal Studies, M.L.S., with a concentration in English for Speakers of Other Languages. Thrifty in-state tuition for all! Other wonderful options: the M.A. in Interdisciplinary Studies from Western New Mexico University where you choose two or three concentrations from a list including English, Writing, Education, Reading Education, and Bilingual Education, and the M.A. in Adult Education or M.A. in English from Northeastern State University of Louisiana.
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