DETC Speculation time again?

General discussions concerning institutions and degree programs.

DETC Speculation time again?

Postby johann » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:39 pm

I believe the DETC held its semi-annual "rites of new accreditation" on June 13-14. I'm guessing it might be 2-3 weeks before we hear. Here are the applicants. Any predictions?

•Aviation University, Orem, UT
•Delta International University, Baton Rouge, LA
•EC-Council University, Albuquerque, NM
•Management Institute of Canada, Montreal, QC, Canada
•Nations University, West Monroe, LA
•Orlando University, Orlando, FL
•Rockbridge Seminary, Springfield, MO
•Stratford Career Institute, Mount Royal, QC, Canada
•University of the People, Pasadena, CA

I said sometime last year I thought Nations U. would receive DETC accreditation this summer. I'll stick with that and if I'm wrong -- so be it. Won't be the first time or the last. Whatever happens, I'm still convinced that if not now -- soon.

I still can't figure what Stratford Career Institute (Canada) is doing on this list. As I wrote earlier, I've taken a couple of their "if you can read, you'll succeed" vocationally-oriented courses in the past. OK for what they were, but certainly not degree, or degree-credit material! Don't like the school's issuing unaccredited, unrecognized High School diplomas either. If they'd drop those, they might qualify for DETC accreditation as a career/vocational distance school. But degree-granting? Seriously? Ummm...no. Not with anything like their current offerings or methodology!

If University of the People attains accreditation and maintains anything like its current cost-model, that will be a game-changer for all similarly-accredited distance-degree granting schools. I'm not making any predictions about when -- or even if -- that's going to happen. But UotP is obviously serious enough to have completed the "readiness" phase to DETC satisfaction - or it would not be on the list.

Johann
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Re: DETC Speculation time again?

Postby SteveFoerster » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:46 pm

johann wrote:If University of the People attains accreditation and maintains anything like its current cost-model, that will be a game-changer for all similarly-accredited distance-degree granting schools. I'm not making any predictions about when -- or even if -- that's going to happen. But UotP is obviously serious enough to have completed the "readiness" phase to DETC satisfaction - or it would not be on the list.

Their current model costs students about $4100 for a Bachelor's degree. That's obviously extremely cheap, but I don't think it would be a game changer, since many students will want something less barebones, even if it costs a bit more.
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Re: DETC Speculation time again?

Postby nosborne48 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:10 pm

University of the People has a nice Wobblie ring to it. I wish them luck! 8)
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Re: DETC Speculation time again?

Postby johann » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:26 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:Their current model costs students about $4100 for a Bachelor's degree. That's obviously extremely cheap, but I don't think it would be a game changer, since many students will want something less barebones, even if it costs a bit more.

And many, many don't Steve. Hence the popularity (in the RA world) of the Big 3 and the forums that specialize in: Big 3 schools, testing-out, FEMA, Straighterline, Aleks, ACE and the like. Maybe UotP might become a well-loved DETC "riff" on a RA Big 3 school. Lots of fans of ultra-cheap degrees, both NA and RA, or so I believe. NA usually costs a little less, so the acutely cost-conscious might well be looking at NA for economy and come to prefer UotP over other NA providers. They won't get $4100 bachelor's degrees anywhere else in that market. Not even close.

Our (Canadian) town now has Wal-Mart AND Target. Seems there's room for both. I think Big 3 and UotP could be the same type of deal. :)

Johann

BTW - How could people not like economics similar to the Big 3, anyway? Hey, I'm preaching to a COSC grad here! :)
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Re: DETC Speculation time again?

Postby Rich Douglas » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:17 pm

I like this from Wikipedia: "....students at MIC are issued degrees from the unaccredited Delta International University of New Orleans."

DIU is also on the list. Talk about double-or-nothing!

Nations U. has a program for prisoners. I like that.

Orlando University offers a Ph.D. Say goodbye to that. But I LOVE this on why it's a good one: "Our PhD Degree Program is, undoubtedly, the first choice of working adults worldwide on account of such factors as ease & flexibility, financial aid plans, pace and quality of education." "On account of"? Who wrote this, Wally and the Beaver? Oh, and they offer the doctorate in "71 different majors." Yeah, that's gonna fly.
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Re: DETC Speculation time again?

Postby johann » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:51 pm

Rich Douglas wrote:I like this from Wikipedia: "....students at MIC are issued degrees from the unaccredited Delta International University of New Orleans."
DIU is also on the list. Talk about double-or-nothing!

Yes, we get "live ones" in Canada from time to time. Good catch!

Reminds me a bit of the "Canadian School of Management" that I think is finally "gone" these days. I believe you wrote a couple of posts in the fora on that one, between 2001 and 2007 or so, Rich. They had a couple of captive unaccredited institutions, Northland Open University (same owner) being one. IIRC, CSM was DETC accredited at one time - and later was not. They also issued degrees through the unaccredited "Revans University" AKA "University of Action Learning" at one time. At last hearing, that "University" had moved to Vanuatu!

Yep --we do get some dandies. Be interesting to see how this "two-fer" plays out.

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Re: DETC Speculation time again?

Postby johann » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:58 pm

Rich Douglas wrote:Nations U. has a program for prisoners. I like that.

So do I. Just as long as it isn't in locksmithing or computer security! :)

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Re: DETC Speculation time again?

Postby Rich Douglas » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:28 am

johann wrote:
Rich Douglas wrote:I like this from Wikipedia: "....students at MIC are issued degrees from the unaccredited Delta International University of New Orleans."
DIU is also on the list. Talk about double-or-nothing!

Yes, we get "live ones" in Canada from time to time. Good catch!

Reminds me a bit of the "Canadian School of Management" that I think is finally "gone" these days. I believe you wrote a couple of posts in the fora on that one, between 2001 and 2007 or so, Rich. They had a couple of captive unaccredited institutions, Northland Open University (same owner) being one. IIRC, CSM was DETC accredited at one time - and later was not. They also issued degrees through the unaccredited "Revans University" AKA "University of Action Learning" at one time. At last hearing, that "University" had moved to Vanuatu!

Yep --we do get some dandies. Be interesting to see how this "two-fer" plays out.

Johann


Yes on almost all fronts. It is important to note that, despite being "located" in the Yukon (not really), NOU wasn't really able to award degrees. But it did anyway. UAL/Revans, however, was able to award degrees.

UAL/Revans, CSM, and IMC all got the boot from DETC on the same day. I've always wondered why.
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Re: DETC Speculation time again?

Postby SteveFoerster » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:12 pm

johann wrote:Hence the popularity (in the RA world) of the Big 3 and the forums that specialize in: Big 3 schools, testing-out, FEMA, Straighterline, Aleks, ACE and the like.

You know, I think being on forums like this gives one a distorted view of how popular these approaches really are. If you combined the student population of the Big 3 and compared it against the total student population of all undergraduates in the U.S., would it even be one percent? I doubt it, I think it would have to be measured in basis points. I'm glad I found Charter Oak, and I think it's a great choice for those who are self-starting and don't mind writing their own plan, but sadly I don't think that describes most people.
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Re: DETC Speculation time again?

Postby nosborne48 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:14 pm

It certainly doesn't describe me! I can get interested in a subject and study it but I am not good at designing my own academic program. I need structure and accountability even where the work itself is largely self-teaching. Good thing I never attempted a doctorate. :wink:
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Re: DETC Speculation time again?

Postby johann » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:08 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:You know, I think being on forums like this gives one a distorted view of how popular these approaches really are. If you combined the student population of the Big 3 and compared it against the total student population of all undergraduates in the U.S., would it even be one percent? I doubt it, I think it would have to be measured in basis points. I'm glad I found Charter Oak, and I think it's a great choice for those who are self-starting and don't mind writing their own plan, but sadly I don't think that describes most people.

Thanks for the reality check, Steve. The mileage these schools get in forums - and the fact there are even specialized fora that deal with little else - definitely make them seem huge, when they're not. Worked on me, anyway! :smile: And yes - they require self-starting and independence. Like yours.

Again, thanks for the much-needed lesson.

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Re: DETC Speculation time again?

Postby johann » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:30 pm

Rich Douglas wrote:It is important to note that, despite being "located" in the Yukon (not really), NOU wasn't really able to award degrees. But it did anyway. UAL/Revans, however, was able to award degrees...

Correct. Northland Open University also partnered with ICS Canada in the 80s - and business degree programs were offered. Pay ICS, study through ICS and get a Northland degree. Roughly $800 a semester, times eight. ICS Canada is a different company now, AFAIK - and Northland is, of course, long-gone. The ONLY case I know of anywhere in which any ICS division partnered with a degree provider of um...non-standard nature. ICS tutors for some well-recognized degrees in the UK and of course, there's Penn Foster in the US. No degrees from the current Canadian school.

Strange - there must have been some really fast talking behind that Northland-ICS partnership! :shock:

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Re: DETC Speculation time again?

Postby johann » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:24 am

Rich Douglas wrote:UAL/Revans, CSM, and IMC all got the boot from DETC on the same day. I've always wondered why.

IMC and UAL/Revans are still around..and strange claims are made for them. I found this odd site for Gaia University - all green, nature and permaculture stuff. They SAY their "accreditor" is IMC and that IMC owns UAL/Revans, through which it can legally issue UK Degrees. It can't of course. :(

Gaia site: http://www.gaiauniversity.org/accreditation-1

Sez there: "IMC, through its wholly owned Revans University, is authorized by the Education Reform Act of 1988 and its amendments to grant degrees in the UK."

Complete lie. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revans_University (Just read the Accreditation section - IMC and Revans)

More danged fraud in these "new green ventures!" Wish they wouldn't. Gives saving the planet a bad name!

Johann

PS: UAL/REVANS is in Vanuatu. Site here: http://www.revans-university.edu/revans/
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Re: DETC Speculation time again?

Postby johann » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:26 pm

Rich Douglas wrote:UAL/Revans, CSM, and IMC all got the boot from DETC on the same day. I've always wondered why.

Apparently, IMC relies on a particular sentence in the Education Act. It is allowed to confer FOREIGN degrees in UK. "Legal" but such degrees don't have to have any particular recognition or standing. As I said, no UK degrees.

http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6003546

Apparently, there was a site visit in 2005, subsequent to which the DETC came to this decision and did not rescind it in light of a "considered response" from IMCA. Unfortunately, the PDF of DETC Spring 2005 newsletter appears to be damaged and I could not download it. IMCA posted a piece on the "other forum" in 2005 regretting DETC decision, with some remark about lack of appeal process, also saying it was time for them (IMCA) to "move on." No other details I could find.

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Re: DETC Speculation time again?

Postby johann » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:03 pm

In the old days, pre-Revans, I believe CSM once partnered with Hawthorne University, Utah, to offer degrees. This school is still operating (legally), still unaccredited. http://www.hawthorne.edu/

I also read an interesting old post on another forum. It mentioned that 'way in the past, (early 80s?) there was a "hybrid" MBA available through CSM. The first half of the courses were taken (distance) through CSM. The professors were said (in the post) to be from well-reputed Canadian universities. The remaining courses (and the degree itself) came from RA City University, Bellevue WA., according to the post.

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