CSU Psy.D is acceptable for title, "doc", in Florida and NYS

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CSU Psy.D is acceptable for title, "doc", in Florida and NYS

Postby vinny123 » Tue May 07, 2013 5:21 pm

Based on discussions with the Boards of Social Work and Mental Health Counseling of Florida and New York, the Psy.D from California Southern University enables graduates to use the title "doctor" legally as long as there is no misrepresentation to the public, intentional or inadvertent, that the holder of this degree is a Psychologist. So a graduate of this program would need to very carefully and thoroughly convey to prospective clients, in writing and verbally, as part of an Informed Consent, that they are not Psychologists and that their doctorate does not imply they have the competencies of a Psychologist or are performing the functions of a Psychologist.

Nonetheless, for individuals who are already licensed at the Masters degree level, the Psy.D program would enable them to legally use the title "Doctor" in these two states.
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Re: CSU Psy.D is acceptable for title, "doc", in Florida and

Postby nosborne48 » Tue May 07, 2013 8:07 pm

Hi, Vinney! How are you doing these days?

CSU is accredited of course so I don't suppose any state would object to using the title so long as there's no misrepresentation. But I wonder how a social worker or counselor would meet the requirements? A disclaimer on one's business cards and Yellow Pages ad?
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Re: CSU Psy.D is acceptable for title, "doc", in Florida and

Postby Rich Douglas » Tue May 07, 2013 8:15 pm

vinny123 wrote:Based on discussions with the Boards of Social Work and Mental Health Counseling of Florida and New York, the Psy.D from California Southern University enables graduates to use the title "doctor" legally as long as there is no misrepresentation to the public, intentional or inadvertent, that the holder of this degree is a Psychologist. So a graduate of this program would need to very carefully and thoroughly convey to prospective clients, in writing and verbally, as part of an Informed Consent, that they are not Psychologists and that their doctorate does not imply they have the competencies of a Psychologist or are performing the functions of a Psychologist.

Nonetheless, for individuals who are already licensed at the Masters degree level, the Psy.D program would enable them to legally use the title "Doctor" in these two states.


Which, if used anywhere near their professional practices as master's-level counselors, would create the ethical dilemma you describe. In mental health, the term "doctor" connotes psychologists and psychiatrists. For a mental health counselor or social worker--even one with an earned doctorate--to use the title "doctor," it would be unethical, no matter how many disclaimers he/she displayed.
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Re: CSU Psy.D is acceptable for title, "doc", in Florida and

Postby vinny123 » Tue May 07, 2013 11:13 pm

[quote="nosborne48"]Hi, Vinney! How are you doing these days?

CSU is accredited of course so I don't suppose any state would object to using the title so long as there's no misrepresentation. But I wonder how a social worker or counselor would meet the requirements? A disclaimer on one's business cards and Yellow Pages ad?[/quote]

VINNY: Basically the Counselor or Social Worker can refer to themselves as DR. So and So, followed by the license in their profession. In their marketing material and verbal and written informed consents, they note the profession and license which enables them to engage in clinical practice as well as clearly indicating that they are not Psychologists and do not provide services that are associated with the practice of professional Psychologists.

It is also recommended that a Licensed Counselor/Social Worker consult with a Lawyer who specializes in the area of informed consent to develop marketing material and informed consent protocols that will ensure their compliance with state statutes and laws pertaining to appropriate representation of one's professional credentials.
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Re: CSU Psy.D is acceptable for title, "doc", in Florida and

Postby vinny123 » Tue May 07, 2013 11:40 pm

DOUGLAS: Which, if used anywhere near their professional practices as master's-level counselors, would create the ethical dilemma you describe. . .[/quote]

VINNY: Absolutely INCORRECT! As noted in my initial post, both boards (as well as others) clearly permit graduates of National Accredited doctorates, in this case the Psy.D from CSU, who are licensed in their respective professional disciplines, to legally use the title DOCTOR as long as they do not misrepresent the nature of the degree to the public as being a doctorate in Psychology that enables them to practice professional Psychology.

DOUGLAS: In mental health, the term "doctor" connotes psychologists and psychiatrists.

VINNY: Incorrect! In mental health, the term "doctor" DOES NOT ONLY connote Psychologists and Psychiatrists BUT also Social Workers, Counselors as well as Psychiatric Nurses who possess doctoral degrees in their respective disciplines. These professionals with these advanced academic credentials are referred to as doctor by their colleagues and team members as well as marketing themselves as doctor in their advertising material if engaged in private practice.

DOUGLAS: For a mental health counselor or social worker--even one with an earned doctorate--to use the title "doctor," it would be unethical, no matter how many disclaimers he/she displayed.

VINNY: I would suggest that prior to making such fallacious assertions that you obtain the facts. To not do so is grossly misleading and negates the credibility of your statements.
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Re: CSU Psy.D is acceptable for title, "doc", in Florida and

Postby Jimmy » Wed May 08, 2013 1:41 am

vinny123 wrote:DOUGLAS: Which, if used anywhere near their professional practices as master's-level counselors, would create the ethical dilemma you describe. . .


VINNY: Absolutely INCORRECT! As noted in my initial post, both boards (as well as others) clearly permit graduates of National Accredited doctorates, in this case the Psy.D from CSU, who are licensed in their respective professional disciplines, to legally use the title DOCTOR as long as they do not misrepresent the nature of the degree to the public as being a doctorate in Psychology that enables them to practice professional Psychology.

DOUGLAS: In mental health, the term "doctor" connotes psychologists and psychiatrists.

VINNY: Incorrect! In mental health, the term "doctor" DOES NOT ONLY connote Psychologists and Psychiatrists BUT also Social Workers, Counselors as well as Psychiatric Nurses who possess doctoral degrees in their respective disciplines. These professionals with these advanced academic credentials are referred to as doctor by their colleagues and team members as well as marketing themselves as doctor in their advertising material if engaged in private practice.

DOUGLAS: For a mental health counselor or social worker--even one with an earned doctorate--to use the title "doctor," it would be unethical, no matter how many disclaimers he/she displayed.

VINNY: I would suggest that prior to making such fallacious assertions that you obtain the facts. To not do so is grossly misleading and negates the credibility of your statements.[/quote]

Vinny is correct and I might add that a holder of the DSW degree may certainly refer to him/herself as "Doctor."
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Re: CSU Psy.D is acceptable for title, "doc", in Florida and

Postby Rich Douglas » Wed May 08, 2013 1:59 am

Perhaps vinny123 can refrain from lashing out at me long enough to point readers to a source indicating that counselors may use the term "doctor" based on an academic degree without the corresponding licensure at that level.
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Re: CSU Psy.D is acceptable for title, "doc", in Florida and

Postby vinny123 » Wed May 08, 2013 3:13 am

[quote="Rich Douglas"]Perhaps vinny123 can refrain from lashing out at me long enough to point readers to a source indicating that counselors may use the term "doctor" based on an academic degree without the corresponding licensure at that level.[/quote]


Helllllooooo Douglas :shock: ! No one is lashing out at you but pointing out that your assertions and assumptions that you present as facts are grossly inaccurate. You made erroneous statements indicating that ONLY Psychologists and Psychiatrists can be referred to as "doctor" in the context of mental health and I corrected your inaccurate assertion as noted in my post above. No one mentioned or intimated anything whatsoever about counselors being allowed to use the term "doctor" based on an academic degree without the corresponding licensure at that level BUT YOU!

No more needs to be stated regarding this subject that I haven't mentioned above except to suggest that you stay within the realm of your scope of expertise; bragging about your degree from the Union Institute! :lol: :lol:
Last edited by vinny123 on Wed May 08, 2013 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CSU Psy.D is acceptable for title, "doc", in Florida and

Postby vinny123 » Wed May 08, 2013 3:18 am

[quote="Jimmy"][quote="vinny123"]DOUGLAS: Which, if used anywhere near their professional practices as master's-level counselors, would create the ethical dilemma you describe. . .[/quote]

VINNY: Absolutely INCORRECT! As noted in my initial post, both boards (as well as others) clearly permit graduates of National Accredited doctorates, in this case the Psy.D from CSU, who are licensed in their respective professional disciplines, to legally use the title DOCTOR as long as they do not misrepresent the nature of the degree to the public as being a doctorate in Psychology that enables them to practice professional Psychology.

DOUGLAS: In mental health, the term "doctor" connotes psychologists and psychiatrists.

VINNY: Incorrect! In mental health, the term "doctor" DOES NOT ONLY connote Psychologists and Psychiatrists BUT also Social Workers, Counselors as well as Psychiatric Nurses who possess doctoral degrees in their respective disciplines. These professionals with these advanced academic credentials are referred to as doctor by their colleagues and team members as well as marketing themselves as doctor in their advertising material if engaged in private practice.

DOUGLAS: For a mental health counselor or social worker--even one with an earned doctorate--to use the title "doctor," it would be unethical, no matter how many disclaimers he/she displayed.

VINNY: I would suggest that prior to making such fallacious assertions that you obtain the facts. To not do so is grossly misleading and negates the credibility of your statements.[/quote]

Vinny is correct and I might add that a holder of the DSW degree may certainly refer to him/herself as "Doctor."[/quote]


VINNY: Jimmy so can a Counselor who holds a doctorate in Counseling.
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Re: CSU Psy.D is acceptable for title, "doc", in Florida and

Postby Tark » Wed May 08, 2013 5:35 am

Until recently, Florida had a general statue 817.567, "Making false claims of academic degree or title."
This statute banned the use of doctoral titles unless they were regionally accredited. However, I think it has since been repealed.
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Re: CSU Psy.D is acceptable for title, "doc", in Florida and

Postby Rich Douglas » Wed May 08, 2013 11:01 am

"vinny123" offers no support for his assertions, as usual.

The topic is under debate in Florida right now, and for good reason. Using the title "doctor" in a healthcare situation due to one's academic credential (and not professional licensure) is confusing and potentially fraudulent. Florida is considering making it a felony: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_c_p ... job-titles

According to that article, and this one, it is already a misdemeanor to mislead someone into thinking one is licensed to practice medicine. http://robinsrx.blogs.theledger.com/121 ... le-doctor/

It is a complicated mess, with positions staked out all around. But "vinny123" is plainly wrong. That position is also well staked-out.
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Re: CSU Psy.D is acceptable for title, "doc", in Florida and

Postby vinny123 » Wed May 08, 2013 12:43 pm

[quote="Tark"]Until recently, Florida had a general statue [url=http://www.flsenate.gov/laws/statutes/2010/817.567]817.567[/url], "Making false claims of academic degree or title."
This statute banned the use of doctoral titles unless they were regionally accredited. However, I think it has since been repealed.[/quote]


Incorrect! Tark, if you are extrapolating quotes do so in its entirety, not piecemeal, which misrepresents and distorts the facts. As clearly noted in the statute you quote above, regional accreditation is only one of a number of accrediting agencies and basis for legally permitting the use of the doctoral title in the state of Florida. In fact it states that doctoral degrees "...accredited by a regional OR professional accrediting agency recognized by the US Department of Agency"entitles one to use the title of "Doctor, clearly implying that a National Accredited Doctorate (DETC), which the doctorate from CSU is, meets this criteria.
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Re: CSU Psy.D is acceptable for title, "doc", in Florida and

Postby nosborne48 » Wed May 08, 2013 1:35 pm

Hm. "Regional or professional"?

What, exactly, is a "professional" accrediting agency? I know about "regional" and "national". I also know about U.S. Dept. of Education recognition but I don't know whether a national, institutional accrediting agency like the DETC is a "professional" accreditor.

I'm not sure it matters much...the way the statute is written, it is unlikely anyone would go to the trouble of litigating the issue.
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Re: CSU Psy.D is acceptable for title, "doc", in Florida and

Postby vinny123 » Wed May 08, 2013 1:54 pm

DOUGLAS: "vinny123" offers no support for his assertions, as usual.

VINNY: "As usual"? Yoo hoo Douglas, offering no support for your positions has frequently been your modus operandi in practically each of our encounters as well as with others with whom you disagree resulting in your using your degree from Union and your out-of-date dissertation topic with absolutely no subsequent publications, lay or professional relating to Distance Education, to fallaciously score points rather than providing substantive evidence to support your positions.

As stated, the Professional Boards of Counseling/Social Work of New York and Florida specifically indicated that a doctorate from a Nationally Accedited School is acceptable for use of title in these respective states as long as there is no misrepresentation of their degree to the public. If a Poster wishes to corroborate this feedback they can contact these boards directly and in fact should do so if they want to pursue a doctorate from a national accredited school.

DOUGLAS: The topic is under debate in Florida right now, and for good reason. Using the title "doctor" in a healthcare situation due to one's academic credential (and not professional licensure) is confusing and potentially fraudulent. Florida is considering making it a felony: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_c_p ... job-titles.

VINNY: Gross misinterpretation of this DEFUNCT bill which exclusively related (past tense) to the Nursing profession (it relates to persons licensed under Chapter 464, NURSING,http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2013/0612) NOT any other profession such as Counseling or Social Work! In an attempt to get out of the quagmire he found himself, Douglas extrapolates partial data from a superficial article that he believes negates the credibility of my thread but transparently and obviously fails to note that this bill died in the Florida Judiciary on 5/3/2013 (http://www.flsenate.gov/session/bill/2013/0612)!

DOUGLAS: According to that article, and this one, it is already a misdemeanor to mislead someone into thinking one is licensed to practice medicine.
It is a complicated mess, with positions staked out all around. But "vinny123" is plainly wrong. That position is also well staked-out.[/quote]

VINNY: DOUGLAS, do us a favor and stick to using your Union Degree to support your positions. :roll: :lol: :wink:
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Re: CSU Psy.D is acceptable for title, "doc", in Florida and

Postby vinny123 » Wed May 08, 2013 2:37 pm

[quote="nosborne48"]Hm. "Regional or professional"?

What, exactly, is a "professional" accrediting agency? I know about "regional" and "national". I also know about U.S. Dept. of Education recognition but I don't know whether a national, institutional accrediting agency like the DETC is a "professional" accreditor.

I'm not sure it matters much...the way the statute is written, it is unlikely anyone would go to the trouble of litigating the issue.[/quote]


VINNY: Nosborne, let's atempt to put your mind at rest. The Florida Statute in question, 817.567 states "...Accreditation by a regional or professional accrediting agency recognized by the US Department of Education or the Commission on Recognition of Postsecondary Accreditation" results in the recognition and legal use of the title doctor in Florida. In fact the Commission on Recognition of Postsecondary Accreditation was dissolved in April 1997 and was replaced by the Council of Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA) http://www.nasasps.org/accreditation-10. CHEA recognizes DETC and the programs they offer including "... credential at the associate, baccularate, masters and FIRST AND PROFESSIONAL DOCTORAL DEGREE LEVEL (my capitalizations)http://www.chea.org/Directories/private.asp.

Thus, as related by the Florida Board of Counseling and Social Work, a person who holds a national Accredited doctorate (DETC) can legally refer to themselves as "Doctor" in Florida, no ifs or buts about it!
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