California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

General discussions concerning institutions and degree programs.

Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby Rich Douglas » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:23 am

vinny123 wrote:In reality, it does NOT mean very little because this school would not make such a public assertion unless they were seriously considering to prepare and seek candidacy status with WASC.

In reality, Douglas was one of the primary posters who held that NCU would not attain RA status when this school announced its plan to seek RA candidacy status. In addition it was Douglas who adamantly claimed that MIGS was a legitimate school, although subsequently denying promoting the virtues of this so-called "school". So much for accurate predictions.


Vinny is almost right on the first point. What I actually said was that NCU would have to include residencies in its doctoral programs before RA would be granted. At the time, no school had purposely been granted RA with non-resident doctoral programs. (TUI got it first, but it was really an extension of Touro College's RA from Middle States.) But yep, I got that wrong.

Vinny is incomplete in his second assertion. Yes, I thought MIGS would be a legitimate effort and said so. I was very supportive and, in pursuit of full disclosure, discussed my relationship with them. But I was also instrumental in getting Florida to go after the operators of MIGS. Subsequently, MIGS was denied a license to operate in that state. It wasn't as cool as Steve making them look like fools in their suit against him--a suit that really revealed MIGS.

Seriously, Vinny, I've posted more than 10,000 times on boards like these about this subject. I'm sure there are plenty of other forward-looking statements I've made that didn't pan out. And a lot that did.

Finally, if you actually read my post, you would see I made no predictions about its chances. Just noting that their so early in the process that there has been no opportunity to measure their likelihood for success and that being SCUPS really smears them. So thanks for the irrelevant attack. Keeping to your usual standard, I see. :roll:
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby Rich Douglas » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:26 am

vinny123 wrote:VINNY: Forester, if you wish your defensive comments to be seen as credible it would help a great deal if YOU quote Douglas's statement in its entirety rather than selectively abstract sentences that do not convey his negative perception towards this school. In fact, his leading statement was "In reality, this means VERY little".

In fact it does NOT mean very little because this ACCREDITED school is not one of the fly by night so-called schools, such as MIGS as well as others, who make such statements with the intent of falsely promoting the credibility of their school to attract naive prospective students to enroll. Obviously, we will have to wait to determine if CSU achieves their goal but the question here is the credibility of their intent and in that regard it is unquestionably credible.


Can't you read? I wasn't talking about the school's chances, just that it's too early for anyone to observe anything yet. What they've done so far is something any school could do, regardless of their quality or fitness for accreditation.

The only comment I made about the school itself is the one about formerly being SCUPS. Read your history, Vinny. SCUPS was bad news.
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby Rich Douglas » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:27 am

nosborne48 wrote:Does it matter to the discussion that CSU is currently an accredited institution as opposed to unaccredited? I don't know how much overlap there might be between the requirements for WASC and the requirements for DETC but I should imagine that CSU has an idea of how to go about it.

Second question...if WASC denies candidacy to CSU what will that say, if anything, about WASC's attitude toward DETC accreditation in general?


It didn't used to matter. It was decades before a school crossed the bridge from DETC to RA. It's been done now, but not very much.
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby Rich Douglas » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:33 am

vinny123 wrote:It needs to be stated that certain posters on this forum (ie, Hungry ghost, etc) frequently interfere with any meaningful exchange of useful information by questioning the veracity of other posters without any credible basis other than their opinion. Unfortunately using this forum to prove their self-worth and to exhibit their legend in their own minds pseudo-level of expertise in all matters of distance education actually prevents any substantive discussions from evolving and only serves these individuals as a means to derive their primary source of virtual reality oriented self-esteem. Ego-centric, YES. Helpful to others, NO, and definitely not a very good situation for posters who come to this board seeking out relevant data to assist them in making informed educational/career decisions.


Not you, of course.

How many doctorates do you hold specializing in the field of distance education? How many dissertations did you write on the subject of accreditation in higher education?

I'm guessing the answers are "zero" and "zero."

Mine would be "one" and "one."

Scoreboard, Vinny. :twisted:
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby vinny123 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:11 am

[quote="Rich Douglas"][quote="vinny123"]In reality, it does NOT mean very little because this school would not make such a public assertion unless they were seriously considering to prepare and seek candidacy status with WASC.

In reality, Douglas was one of the primary posters who held that NCU would not attain RA status when this school announced its plan to seek RA candidacy status. In addition it was Douglas who adamantly claimed that MIGS was a legitimate school, although subsequently denying promoting the virtues of this so-called "school". So much for accurate predictions.[/quote]

Vinny is almost right on the first point. What I actually said was that NCU would have to include residencies in its doctoral programs before RA would be granted. At the time, no school had purposely been granted RA with non-resident doctoral programs. (TUI got it first, but it was really an extension of Touro College's RA from Middle States.) But yep, I got that wrong.

Vinny is incomplete in his second assertion. Yes, I thought MIGS would be a legitimate effort and said so. I was very supportive and, in pursuit of full disclosure, discussed my relationship with them. But I was also instrumental in getting Florida to go after the operators of MIGS. Subsequently, MIGS was denied a license to operate in that state. It wasn't as cool as Steve making them look like fools in their suit against him--a suit that really revealed MIGS.

Seriously, Vinny, I've posted more than 10,000 times on boards like these about this subject. I'm sure there are plenty of other forward-looking statements I've made that didn't pan out. And a lot that did.

Finally, if you actually read my post, you would see I made no predictions about its chances. Just noting that their so early in the process that there has been no opportunity to measure their likelihood for success and that being SCUPS really smears them. So thanks for the irrelevant attack. Keeping to your usual standard, I see. :roll:[/quote]


VINNY: Not an irrelevant attack whatsoever, merely an observation. :wink:
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby vinny123 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:21 am

[quote="Rich Douglas"][quote="vinny123"]
VINNY: Forester, if you wish your defensive comments to be seen as credible it would help a great deal if YOU quote Douglas's statement in its entirety rather than selectively abstract sentences that do not convey his negative perception towards this school. In fact, his leading statement was "In reality, this means VERY little".

In fact it does NOT mean very little because this ACCREDITED school is not one of the fly by night so-called schools, such as MIGS as well as others, who make such statements with the intent of falsely promoting the credibility of their school to attract naive prospective students to enroll. Obviously, we will have to wait to determine if CSU achieves their goal but the question here is the credibility of their intent and in that regard it is unquestionably credible.[/quote]

Can't you read? I wasn't talking about the school's chances, just that it's too early for anyone to observe anything yet. What they've done so far is something any school could do, regardless of their quality or fitness for accreditation.

The only comment I made about the school itself is the one about formerly being SCUPS. Read your history, Vinny. SCUPS was bad news.[/quote]


VINNY: Oh, I can read alright but the issue does not center around my reading skills but the manner in which you prefaced your initial comments which did come across quite negatively relating to CSU.

Btw, I am very familiar with your negative impressions of SCUPS. However, this negative impression serves as another example of drawing premature conclusions because SCUPS evolved into an accredited school, one which is now seeking regional accreditation candidacy. Just demonstrates the necessity of thinking outside the box and having the critical foresight to evaluate an unaccredited school's strengths and limitations in regard to improving its accreditation status. :wink:
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby Jimmy » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:28 am

Been a long time since we've had fireworks on here.
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby vinny123 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:36 am

[quote="Rich Douglas"][quote="vinny123"]It needs to be stated that certain posters on this forum (ie, Hungry ghost, etc) frequently interfere with any meaningful exchange of useful information by questioning the veracity of other posters without any credible basis other than their opinion. Unfortunately using this forum to prove their self-worth and to exhibit their legend in their own minds pseudo-level of expertise in all matters of distance education actually prevents any substantive discussions from evolving and only serves these individuals as a means to derive their primary source of virtual reality oriented self-esteem. Ego-centric, YES. Helpful to others, NO, and definitely not a very good situation for posters who come to this board seeking out relevant data to assist them in making informed educational/career decisions.[/quote]

Not you, of course.

How many doctorates do you hold specializing in the field of distance education? How many dissertations did you write on the subject of accreditation in higher education?

I'm guessing the answers are "zero" and "zero."

Mine would be "one" and "one."

Scoreboard, Vinny. :twisted:[/quote]

VINNY: Good ole defensive Douglas, still falling upon his "Name it and Frame it" degree whenever he is held accountable for his inaccurate assertions and predictions .

However since Douglas broached the issue it is important to alert any newcomers to the fact that prior to and at the time of Douglas's attendance at his Alma Mater, many students of his school received doctorates based on dissertations that were no more substantive than glorified essays! In fact, the Ohio Board of Regents placed his Alma mater on probation due to this sham situation resulting in this school eventually improving its academic standards to doctoral level standards.
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby vinny123 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:48 am

[quote="Jimmy"]Been a long time since we've had fireworks on here.[/quote]

Not fireworks Jimmy, merely acting-out behavior on the part of certain posters who use this forum for self-esteem purposes with absolutely no regard for the well being of other posters. Just imagine Jimmy, in good faith, a poster presents relevant information that was thought to be of interest to posters and immediately there is an outpouring of naysayers who question the credibility of the information provided and then proceed to engage in their pseudo-pedantic rants that are totally out of touch with the context of the straightforward post provided.
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby SteveFoerster » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:26 am

You have to love it when an anonymous troll criticizes the real credentials of others.... :roll:
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby vinny123 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:43 am

[quote="SteveFoerster"]You have to love it when an anonymous troll criticizes the real credentials of others.... :roll:[/quote]

VINNY: Poor, desperate Foerster. Unable to provide anything of value to this topic so he continues to flame and engage in petty antics. So be it.

In fact I did not raise the issue relating to Douglas's credentials but he did defensively as a fallacious argument in a futile attempt to :wink: prove that his degrees makes his assertions and opinions more credible and valid than other posters. Based on his record of inaccurate predictions and assertions it is apparent that this is not the case and I merely clarified this fact.
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby Rich Douglas » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:36 pm

vinny123 wrote:VINNY: Good ole defensive Douglas, still falling upon his "Name it and Frame it" degree whenever he is held accountable for his inaccurate assertions and predictions .

However since Douglas broached the issue it is important to alert any newcomers to the fact that prior to and at the time of Douglas's attendance at his Alma Mater, many students of his school received doctorates based on dissertations that were no more substantive than glorified essays! In fact, the Ohio Board of Regents placed his Alma mater on probation due to this sham situation resulting in this school eventually improving its academic standards to doctoral level standards.


"Name it and Frame It" was Steve Levicoff, not me.

Union's fight with the OBR is well-documented, Vinny. Your assertions, however, do not reflect the issues in play during that period of time.

Where did you earn your doctorate, Vinny? You know, the one that qualifies you to criticize others? The one that qualifies you to make those mis-statements?

Not defensive, Vinny, just the facts. What's sad is that this thread has been hijacked by someone (you) who cannot read, cannot quote, cannot spell, cannot write, and cannot think. All you've done is lash out at a bunch of other posters who had reasonable things to say about a particular school. That you would treat them as negative comments about CSU is the epitome of the very thing you accuse others of being: defensive.

What are you protecting, Vinny? Afraid of the ghost of SCUPS? :roll:
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby Rich Douglas » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:39 pm

vinny123 wrote:
Jimmy wrote:Been a long time since we've had fireworks on here.


Not fireworks Jimmy, merely acting-out behavior on the part of certain posters who use this forum for self-esteem purposes with absolutely no regard for the well being of other posters. Just imagine Jimmy, in good faith, a poster presents relevant information that was thought to be of interest to posters and immediately there is an outpouring of naysayers who question the credibility of the information provided and then proceed to engage in their pseudo-pedantic rants that are totally out of touch with the context of the straightforward post provided.


No one "questioned the credibility" of what you posted, Vinny. Speaking for myself, I merely pointed out that it didn't have much meaning at this point. The rest was your psychotic ramblings.
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby Rich Douglas » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:46 pm

vinny123 wrote:
SteveFoerster wrote:You have to love it when an anonymous troll criticizes the real credentials of others.... :roll:


VINNY: Poor, desperate Foerster. Unable to provide anything of value to this topic so he continues to flame and engage in petty antics. So be it.

In fact I did not raise the issue relating to Douglas's credentials but he did defensively as a fallacious argument in a futile attempt to :wink: prove that his degrees makes his assertions and opinions more credible and valid than other posters. Based on his record of inaccurate predictions and assertions it is apparent that this is not the case and I merely clarified this fact.


Which might be reasonable if (a) you had even a clue about what you're talking about and (b) went about it in a cogent fashion. Instead you lash out at everyone else.

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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby vinny123 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:00 pm

[quote="Rich Douglas"][quote="vinny123"]
VINNY: Good ole defensive Douglas, still falling upon his "Name it and Frame it" degree whenever he is held accountable for his inaccurate assertions and predictions .

However since Douglas broached the issue it is important to alert any newcomers to the fact that prior to and at the time of Douglas's attendance at his Alma Mater, many students of his school received doctorates based on dissertations that were no more substantive than glorified essays! In fact, the Ohio Board of Regents placed his Alma mater on probation due to this sham situation resulting in this school eventually improving its academic standards to doctoral level standards.[/quote]

DOUGLAS: "Name it and Frame It" was Steve Levicoff, not me.

ViNNY: Who said otherwise? Being defensive again? :wink:

DOUGLAS: Union's fight with the OBR is well-documented, Vinny. Your assertions, however, do not reflect the issues in play during that period of time.

VINNYY: OH yes it does. I spoke directly with a senior representative of the Ohio Board of Regents at the time and they conveyed the information as noted above.

DOUGLAS: Where did you earn your doctorate, Vinny? You know, the one that qualifies you to criticize others? The one that qualifies you to make those mis-statements?

Not defensive, Vinny, just the facts. What's sad is that this thread has been hijacked by someone (you) who cannot read, cannot quote, cannot spell, cannot write, and cannot think. All you've done is lash out at a bunch of other posters who had reasonable things to say about a particular school. That you would treat them as negative comments about CSU is the epitome of the very thing you accuse others of being: defensive.

What are you protecting, Vinny? Afraid of the ghost of SCUPS? :roll:[/quote]

VINNY: Sorry Douglas, you are hyper-defensive. Nothing more, nothing less. :wink:
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