California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby Jonathan Whatley » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:30 pm

This is good to know. Thanks for the legwork, vinny.

Grantham University is DETC and had a site visit with NCA HLC scheduled early last year, but they don't seem to have gone any further in the process?
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby vinny123 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:42 pm

[quote="Jonathan Whatley"]This is good to know. Thanks for the legwork, vinny.

Grantham University is DETC and had [url=http://www.degreeinfo.com/general-distance-learning-discussions/40176-detc-schools-pending-ra-status.html#post389245]a site visit with NCA HLC[/url] scheduled early last year, but they don't [url=http://www.ncahlc.org/component/com_directory/Action,ShowBasic/Itemid,93/instid,2915/]seem[/url] to have gone any further in the process?[/quote]


VINNY: It is irrelevant to the situation with CSU that Grantham University did not go all the way with pursuing candidacy status with WASC. Obviously they are two distinctly different schools but most importantly Dr. Hecht is the President of CSU and based on his previous successful experience in attaining RA accreditation for NCU actually enhances the chances that a similar outcome will occur for CSU.
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby Tark » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:02 pm

If Cal Southern can achieve RA candidacy with WASC, then obviously that's a big plus for the students and alumni -- with one possible exception: current JD students.

As noted previously in this thread, WASC's current policy is unfavorable to institutions with unaccredited law schools. So if they are pursuing RA with WASC, Cal Southern's options with regards to the law school would appear to be:

(1) close it;
(2) spin it off as a separate institution, which might keep the old DETC accreditation but not WASC accreditation;
(3) get CalBar approval for the law school (seems unlikely for a DL program)
(4) convince WASC to change its policy (seems conceivable, since HLC accredits Concord as part of Kaplan)

It's true that WASC candidacy won't happen immediately, but then again the JD program takes four years. So there's a good chance that a new law student, starting at California Southern today, could be affected by this issue before graduating. If the issue is resolved by Options 3 or 4, then there is no problem; however, those seem less likely than Options 1 or 2.
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby vinny123 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:13 pm

It needs to be stated that certain posters on this forum (ie, Hungry ghost, etc) frequently interfere with any meaningful exchange of useful information by questioning the veracity of other posters without any credible basis other than their opinion. Unfortunately using this forum to prove their self-worth and to exhibit their legend in their own minds pseudo-level of expertise in all matters of distance education actually prevents any substantive discussions from evolving and only serves these individuals as a means to derive their primary source of virtual reality oriented self-esteem. Ego-centric, YES. Helpful to others, NO, and definitely not a very good situation for posters who come to this board seeking out relevant data to assist them in making informed educational/career decisions.
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby Tark » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:32 pm

Cal Southern's "Eligibility" status with WASC is apparently not a brand new development. It looks like Cal Southern announced it four months ago, in a press release dated September 12, 2012:
California Southern University has applied for Eligibility from the Senior College Commission of the Western Association of Schools and Colleges. WASC has reviewed the application and determined that California Southern University is eligible to proceed with its self-study and application for Candidacy for Accreditation.

A determination of Eligibility is not a formal status with the Accrediting Commission, nor does it ensure eventual accreditation; it is a preliminary finding that the institution is potentially accreditable and can proceed within four years of its Eligibility determination to be reviewed for Candidacy status with the Accrediting Commission.

So it would seem that the Eligibility determination was made in September 2012, which implies that the Candidacy determination will be made by September 2016. So a law student starting the four-year JD program at Cal Southern in 2013 would potentially be affected.
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby vinny123 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:44 pm

Tark, thanks for the press release.

It is significant to note that the pseudo-virtual reality pundits on this board never present relevant and useful information on this forum pertaining to schools that are not congruent with their perception of a credible school, for the review and benefit of other posters.

FYI, based on my discussion today with the WASC Representative, candidacy status can be achieved prior to September 2016 and could possibly occur in two to three years.
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby Jonathan Whatley » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:51 pm

Vinny, can't you share Cal Southern's certainly good news without lashing out at others?
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby Tark » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:12 pm

most importantly Dr. Hecht is the President of CSU and based on his previous successful experience in attaining RA accreditation for NCU actually enhances the chances that a similar outcome will occur for CSU.

The president of Cal Southern, for the last several years, has actually been Dr. Caroll Ryan. The Sept. press release includes her picture and implies that she will be leading the accreditation effort:

“This is an exciting time for CalSouthern and an important step as the university continues to grow and to enhance its degree programs and student services,” says University President Dr. Caroll Ryan. “We very much look forward to working with WASC throughout the accreditation process.”

Dr. Hecht still uses the titles of "founder and president emeritus of California Southern University", and I'm sure he is a resource, but he's probably not as active as he was in 1978 (when he founded SCUPS) or 1996 (when he founded NCU).
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby vinny123 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:17 pm

[quote="Tark"][quote]most importantly Dr. Hecht is the President of CSU and based on his previous successful experience in attaining RA accreditation for NCU actually enhances the chances that a similar outcome will occur for CSU.[/quote]
The president of Cal Southern, for the last several years, has actually been Dr. Caroll Ryan. The Sept. press release includes her picture and implies that she will be leading the accreditation effort:

[quote]“This is an exciting time for CalSouthern and an important step as the university continues to grow and to enhance its degree programs and student services,” says University President Dr. Caroll Ryan. “We very much look forward to working with WASC throughout the accreditation process.”[/quote]
Dr. Hecht still [url=http://www.calsouthern.edu/content/articles/online-higher-education-articles/a-vision-for-education/federal-financial-aid-a-good-idea-gone-bad/]uses the titles[/url] of "founder and president emeritus of California Southern University", and I'm sure he is a resource, but he's probably not as active as he was in 1978 (when he founded SCUPS) or 1996 (when he founded NCU).[/quote]


VINNY: Tark, yes Dr. Ryan is listed as the president BUT Dr. Hecht remains at the helm of this school and is the guiding force, a fact I confirmed today when speaking once again to one of the advisers of CSU.
Last edited by vinny123 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby vinny123 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:24 pm

[quote="Jonathan Whatley"]Vinny, can't you share Cal Southern's certainly [i]good[/i] news without lashing out at others?[/quote]

VINNY: In fact I did Whatlely but was derailed by the usual suspects on this board due to their own need to prove their self-worth. Unfortunately Whatley you are part of the problem I have been discussing. Instead of tending your "advice" to those on this board (Hungry Ghost, Forester, etc) who initially attacked and attempted to undermine the veracity/credibility of the information I presented in good faith YOU focus on my holding these individuals accountable for diverting this topic into one which focuses on their ego-centric needs versus the needs of other posters!

Now Whatley what do YOU have to offer this discussion regarding CSU other than your attempt to divert this topic any further, a pattern that you have displayed in the past. We are waiting.
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby Hungry Ghost » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:08 pm

VINNY: In lieu of "assuming" the accuracy of the information I presented , why don't YOU take the initiative, as I did in good faith, to call CSU and either corroborate the information I presented or negate it. Otherwise, your hyper-intellectualized conjecturing regarding the credibility of my information is completely worthless and does not add a smitten of positive information regarding this topic.


I was just agreeing with you that if Cal Southern has indeed been granted 'eligibility' status by WASC, then that's a very positive development. Take it or leave it, I'm not interested in getting into an ego-contest with you.
VINNY: Once again, as your history clearly reveals, your infantilizing pontifications to posters as if they are dolts does not add any substantive matter to this discussion but your in-the-clouds speculations leading to nowhere.


You're acting crazy again, Vinny.

The point is that WASC's 'eligibility' status is something that most of the other accreditors don't have, it probably needs to be outlined for readers who aren't familiar with it, and it does mean something. It means that an applicant school doesn't appear totally unaccreditable to WASC's initial peer-review process and that it deserves a closer look.

But in the case of a school that's already been accredited by DETC (which was Nosborne's point) that's not anything that we didn't already know. So what Cal Southern's achieving eligibility status is really telling us is simply that the school has initiated the process with WASC and is seeking regional accreditation. And I think that's a very positive step for them to take. Only time will tell how successful they are.
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby Hungry Ghost » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:29 pm

Tark wrote:As noted previously in this thread, WASC's current policy is unfavorable to institutions with unaccredited law schools. So if they are pursuing RA with WASC, Cal Southern's options with regards to the law school would appear to be:

(1) close it;
(2) spin it off as a separate institution, which might keep the old DETC accreditation but not WASC accreditation;
(3) get CalBar approval for the law school (seems unlikely for a DL program)
(4) convince WASC to change its policy (seems conceivable, since HLC accredits Concord as part of Kaplan)


I don't see WASC relenting for Cal Southern when they wouldn't do it for Concord. So my guess is that the most likely development would be your (2), Cal Southern spinning its law school off into a free-standing unit that would be able to keep its DETC accreditation. (That would depend on the administrative and financial details of the split, I guess.) Otherwise (1), closing it, and I expect that they don't want to do that.
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby vinny123 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:34 pm

VINNY to HUNGRY GHOST: In lieu of "assuming" the accuracy of the information I presented , why don't YOU take the initiative, as I did in good faith, to call CSU and either corroborate the information I presented or negate it. Otherwise, your hyper-intellectualized conjecturing regarding the credibility of my information is completely worthless and does not add a smitten of positive information regarding this topic.[/quote]

HUNGRY GHOST: I was just agreeing with you that if Cal Southern has indeed been granted 'eligibility' status by WASC, then that's a very positive development. Take it or leave it, I'm not interested in getting into an ego-contest with you.

VINNY: Just agreeing with me with statements such as the following?

HUNGRY GHOST QUOTES:

"ASSUMING that this information is accurate, it's a positive step for Cal Southern"

"It's true that all we have at this point is an anecdotal internet discussion board post about something that was SUPPOSEDLY said in a telephone conversation or SOMETHING".

VINNY: This is not agreeing with me but clearly undermining comments relating to the credibility of the information I presented.

HUNGRY GHOST: You're acting crazy again, Vinny.

VINNY: Not as crazy as would like me to be. YOU have a pattern of questioning the veracity of other posters' information without ever doing the homework necessary to support your contentions other than your global rantings and opinions without substance.

HUNGRY GHOST:The point is that WASC's 'eligibility' status is something that most of the other accreditors don't have, it probably needs to be outlined for readers who aren't familiar with it, and it does mean something. It means that an applicant school doesn't appear totally unaccreditable to WASC's initial peer-review process and that it deserves a closer look.

VINNY: HELLO! You are once again being circumstantial and not addressing or relating to the straightforward information I initially presented and instead going on your usual diffuse rants that are completely disconnected from the content of my post.

HUNGRY GHOST: So what Cal Southern's achieving eligibility status is really telling us is simply that the school has initiated the process with WASC and is seeking regional accreditation. And I think that's a very positive step for them to take. Only time will tell how successful they are.

VINNY: I hate to disrupt your cartharsis but what you are verbalizing above is exactly what I stated. You can now return to your dream state. :shock: :roll:
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby Tark » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:29 pm

Another Cal Southern accreditation issue of possible interest: their DETC accreditation is due for renewal in June 2014.

If all goes well, it's possible that Cal Southern might be an official WASC "Candidate" by then. The USDoE recognizes RA Candidates as "pre-accredited". So in this case, Cal Southern students should still qualify for federal financial aid after June 2014, even if they let the DETC accreditation expire.

On the other hand, it can take years to earn RA "Candidate" status; Cal Southern presumably has until Sept 2016 as noted above. So it is also possible that Cal Southern might not be an official WASC Candidate by June 2014. In that case, they might want to go through the DETC re-accreditation process, while simultaneously working towards WASC accreditation, to ensure that they maintain federal recognition. I'm sure that it's possible to undergo NA and RA accreditation review at the same time, but it's probably uncommon.
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Re: California Southern U. eligible to seek RA candidacy.

Postby nosborne48 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:50 pm

I'd imagine they would renew their DETC accreditation in any event to cover the law school in particular and their bases in general.
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