What's the accreditation status of Charisma University?

General discussions concerning institutions and degree programs.

Re: What's the accreditation status of Charisma University?

Postby mbwa shenzi » Mon May 05, 2014 1:00 pm

surprises wrote:Even a child will tell you that a Ministry of Education recognized University/College is a recognized institution.


Yet despite numerous requests for evidence, you haven't really presented any, have you?

So I ask again: is this something you assume or something you know?

worldtraveler wrote:And I bet ASIC accreditation had a lot to do with Charisma University receiving MOE.


I tend to think that you know this was the case. If so, the Turks & Caicos Ministry of Education either misunderstood what ASIC accreditation means, or found it sufficient. But as you probably know, ASIC neither validates nor confers degree awarding powers.
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Re: What's the accreditation status of Charisma University?

Postby Rich Douglas » Mon May 05, 2014 2:30 pm

surprises wrote:Rich Douglass, your Ph.D. education you had with Union institute was either not with sound curriculum or you gained no knowledge from it :) ! Even a child will tell you that a Ministry of Education recognized University/College is a recognized institution. You know what, I think I am wasting my time responding to an ignorant person like you :( . Don't think we shall bow for your Ph.D., not even when you don't know what you studied :D.

HAVE A GOOD DAY "DR". RICH DOUGLASS!!!!!


Thank you for the good wishes. Between the two of us, I suspect I know more about what I studied and did not. You can't even spell my name correctly.

You can call me all the names you want, it doesn't change the fact that this fake school you're touting is a sham.
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Re: What's the accreditation status of Charisma University?

Postby Hungry Ghost » Mon May 05, 2014 2:58 pm

surprises wrote:Even a child will tell you that a Ministry of Education recognized University/College is a recognized institution.


If a "ministry of education" "recognizes" a school, then presumably it's being recognized as being something, for some purpose. Perhaps somebody has been granted initial approval for the future creation of a new private school. Perhaps permission has been granted for what somebody believes is an existing foreign university to open an instructional site and to offer programs inside that jurisdiction.

"Ministry of education recognition" needn't imply that the "ministry" is itself supplying competent and credible external academic quality assurance. Very often that isn't the case.

In the case of a small island group with no domestic higher education sector of its own, whatever tiny "ministry of education" might exist most likely doesn't even possess the competence to make those kind of more sophisticated determinations.

There's absolutely no guarantee that the academic and professional communities in the rest of the world will perceive whatever-it-is as a sound and credible university that's fully the equal of universities in their own countries.
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Re: What's the accreditation status of Charisma University?

Postby SteveFoerster » Mon May 05, 2014 3:47 pm

Hungry Ghost wrote:"Ministry of education recognition" needn't imply that the "ministry" is itself supplying competent and credible external academic quality assurance. Very often that isn't the case.

That's true. In Dominica, for example, there is both a registration process through the Ministry of Education, and an accreditation process through the National Accreditation Board. The latter supplies competent and credible external academic quality assurance. The former doesn't, although that's okay because that's not its purpose. TCI doesn't seem to separate these functions, however.

In the case of a small island group with no domestic higher education sector of its own, whatever tiny "ministry of education" might exist most likely doesn't even possess the competence to make those kind of more sophisticated determinations.

Not only does their Ministry of Education exist, but it has a six member Higher Education Advisory Board set up to advise on this very issue. Do you have any evidence that their people are incompetent or unsophisticated? I ask because I can't help but notice that this argument is used about Caribbean countries yet not to criticize, say, the International University of Monaco, which is also a private institution in a small country that otherwise doesn't have a higher education sector. And the difference can't be affluence, since TCI has a GDP per capita about the same as Italy's.

There's absolutely no guarantee that the academic and professional communities in the rest of the world will perceive whatever-it-is as a sound and credible university that's fully the equal of universities in their own countries.

That's very true. But given that ACE and ACBSP have admitted them, that's some evidence that they do, or at least that they're giving them the benefit of the doubt. That seems more reasonable than the "we know it when we see it" approach, ultimately there have to be yes/no rules for this sort of thing, especially as cross-border distance higher education expands.
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Re: What's the accreditation status of Charisma University?

Postby Hungry Ghost » Mon May 05, 2014 6:14 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:Not only does their Ministry of Education exist, but it has a six member Higher Education Advisory Board set up to advise on this very issue.


A Higher Education Advisory Board isn't the same thing as a competent and experienced university accreditor.

Do you have any evidence that their people are incompetent or unsophisticated?


It appears that apart from the islands' community college and a marine laboratory operated by Boston University, Charisma is the only 'university' boasting a Turks and Caicos address.

http://www.tcimall.tc/academic/

Whatever process was applied in the case of Charisma, it would seem to have been the first time that it was applied to a four-year degree-granting school.

And seeing as how Charisma supposedly just moved to the Turks and Caicos from the Philippines a short time ago, obvious questions arise about what exactly was transferred. (Has anyone heard of a legitimate university just up and moving halfway around the world like that? Don't real universities have offices and staff?) My strong suspicion is that the Turks and Caicos address is simply a mail forwarder. How in the world does an accreditor conduct a site visit of a mail-box?

It may also be significant that two new "medical schools" appear to be in the works for the Turks and Caicos as well. One of them has reportedly already been given its necessary recognitions by the Higher Education Board, despite its still being a year away from opening. So whatever the T&CI authorities are doing, it looks more like simple permission to initially begin operations than anything like what Americans understand the word 'accreditation' to mean.

http://www.gov.tc/sites/default/files/2 ... tion_0.pdf
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Re: What's the accreditation status of Charisma University?

Postby mbwa shenzi » Mon May 05, 2014 7:14 pm

Hungry Ghost wrote:And seeing as how Charisma supposedly just moved to the Turks and Caicos from the Philippines a short time ago, obvious questions arise about what exactly was transferred


I agree, considering that Charisma's main market seems to be Nigeria.

Hungry Ghost wrote:My strong suspicion is that the Turks and Caicos address is simply a mail forwarder


Charisma University, Neptune CT, Grace Bay, Providenciales: it could be this place http://www.enews.tc/content/retailoffic ... -grace-bay
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Re: What's the accreditation status of Charisma University?

Postby Hungry Ghost » Mon May 05, 2014 11:28 pm

mbwa shenzi wrote:Charisma University, Neptune CT, Grace Bay, Providenciales: it could be this place http://www.enews.tc/content/retailoffic ... -grace-bay


That looks like the same building featured on Charisma's website.
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Re: What's the accreditation status of Charisma University?

Postby surprises » Tue May 06, 2014 12:03 am

Shanzi and Hungry Ghost, why not visit Charisma University to see to yourself whether they exit or not? The air ticket is not really expensive as you can see. What are you waiting for? As we all know, Charisma University doesn't claim what it doesn't have; the picture of building you see on Charisma website is truly where their office building is located. Their office is also large and not like some of distance online Universities in USA that has a room and call it an office. For the benefit of doubt, please take a trip and visit Charisma University! You are just making unnecessary noise and baseless statements. Thanks SteveFoerster for your insight on this; it shows you are more experienced in Higher Education system.
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Re: What's the accreditation status of Charisma University?

Postby worldtraveler » Tue May 06, 2014 12:11 am

Nice try mbwa shenza. I know a few outstanding optometrists. I think that you are blind. I won't dignify the other posts with a response. More confusion to keep potential students away. :lol:
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Re: What's the accreditation status of Charisma University?

Postby johann » Tue May 06, 2014 12:23 am

Appears to be the same building, different angle. My six-year-old grandson thinks so, too. Or are we both blind? :)

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Re: What's the accreditation status of Charisma University?

Postby SteveFoerster » Tue May 06, 2014 12:49 am

Hungry Ghost wrote:
mbwa shenzi wrote:Charisma University, Neptune CT, Grace Bay, Providenciales: it could be this place http://www.enews.tc/content/retailoffic ... -grace-bay


That looks like the same building featured on Charisma's website.

Well, Google shows it's an office building, and I don't see evidence there's a mail forwarder there. It looks like that's where they have an actual office, although from the looks of the building and the other tenants there they can't possibly have a huge space. This to me is not a big deal either way, though, as I don't think that a distance learning school whose people telework needs much of a space at all. Either way, despite the invitation I'm not going all the way to Provo to find out.
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Re: What's the accreditation status of Charisma University?

Postby worldtraveler » Tue May 06, 2014 2:09 am

If you pass through any large city, many "for profit" universities like the University of Phoenix advertise on the side of many office buildings. That doesn't mean that it is a postal mail forwarding address or that the university using the building is the only business. Even the University of the Cumberlands has an office viewable from Interstate 75, as you are passing through Florence, Kentucky.
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Re: What's the accreditation status of Charisma University?

Postby Rich Douglas » Tue May 06, 2014 3:37 am

A description of the building reveals a great deal about it, and nothing about Charisma (except that this isn't a "university"):

Neptune Court is an intimate property catering primarily to professionals. We are home to a variety of professional services including Medical Doctors, Optometrist, Lawyers, Architects, Quantity Surveyors, Osteopath, Chiropractor, Psychiatrist and IT specialist as well as a popular restaurant and a Pharmacy.
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Re: What's the accreditation status of Charisma University?

Postby Rich Douglas » Tue May 06, 2014 3:40 am

worldtraveler wrote:If you pass through any large city, many "for profit" universities like the University of Phoenix advertise on the side of many office buildings. That doesn't mean that it is a postal mail forwarding address or that the university using the building is the only business. Even the University of the Cumberlands has an office viewable from Interstate 75, as you are passing through Florence, Kentucky.


Quite true. Some very small and good nontraditional universities have been run from a few leased offices. But....

When this is added to all of the other indicators, it looks like both this office and the T&C are being used to fly a "flag of convenience." That doesn't make it a university, nor does anything else this person (in both guises) has said.
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Re: What's the accreditation status of Charisma University?

Postby Hungry Ghost » Tue May 06, 2014 5:34 am

Rich Douglas wrote:A description of the building reveals a great deal about it, and nothing about Charisma (except that this isn't a "university"):

Neptune Court is an intimate property catering primarily to professionals. We are home to a variety of professional services including Medical Doctors, Optometrist, Lawyers, Architects, Quantity Surveyors, Osteopath, Chiropractor, Psychiatrist and IT specialist as well as a popular restaurant and a Pharmacy.


It's odd that the description doesn't mention that the Turks and Caicos' only four-year degree-granting university is supposedly one of the building's tenants.

Given the relatively small size of the office building, the wide variety of tenants, and the fact that much of the ground floor seems to be occupied by a popular Chinese restaurant, each office unit can't be much larger than one or two rooms.

Charisma says that it occupies 'unit 214'. That unit may or may not also house a local hotel reservations agent.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sour ... idenciales
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