Tick, tick, tick . . .

Discussions on the value or merit of unaccredited programs and institutions.

Tick, tick, tick . . .

Postby John Bear » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:44 pm

Robert L. O'Block, M.Div., Ph.D., Psy.D., D.Min.

http://www.droblock.com/
--------------------------------------------------
ABA Journal, Feb. 2000, p. 44 (start of a long article)
"Robert O'Block has come a long way since 1994, when he made $40,000 a year as a professor at the College of the Ozarks in Point Lookout, Mo.
Now he's making a six-figure income as the executive director of the American College of Forensic Examiners, a Springfield, Mo.based nonprofit organization that credentials forensic experts.
O'Block started in 1992 with $500 of his own money and in the beginning ran a credentialing service single-handedly out of a spare room in his home. It has since grown into a 13,000-member organization with more than $2.2 million in annual revenue.
He was paid nearly $190,000 for his efforts in 1997, according to the most recent federal tax return available for the organization.
But O'Block, 48, apparently has made few friends and admirers along the way. One former associate calls him a con artist. And more than one describes his organization's credentialing process as a complete scam.
"He basically takes people's money and gives them a worthless piece of paper," says Robert Phillips, an Audubon, N.J., document examiner. "He's just in it for the money." Phillips claims he has reason to know. He says he resigned as chair of the organization's certification committee in 1993 after discovering that O'Block was issuing credentials to unqualified candidates behind the committee's back.
Many of the nation's leading forensic scientists don't seem to have much use for O'Block or his organization either.

James Starrs, a professor of law and forensic sciences at George Washington University, says the organization's certification process lacks objectivity. "It's driven by the felt needs of the people in charge," he says. "If they want you in, you're in, even if they have to break all of the rules to do it."
Andre Moenssens, a law school professor at the University of Missouri-Kansas City and an expert on scientific evidence, goes even further. He says O'Block's organization is basically a certification mill. "For the right amount of money, he will certify just about anybody as an expert in anything," Moenssens says."
-------------------------
O'Block is on faculty of HOLY TRINITY COLLEGE AND SEMINARY of the Southern Episcopal Church http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Southern/Catalog.html
Unaccredited and not affiliated with Episcopal church.

http://www.anglicansonline.org/communion/nic.html
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Southern/index.html
William Sloane VP is on corp. annual report as an officer to sign corp. papers. He is also this:
The Rt. Rev. Wm. M. Sloane, Christ Catholic Church, which also sells a book written by Bishop Robert O'Block CURE OF SOULS
http://www.christcatholicchurch.com/churchhistory.html
August 3, 2006: The selection of Dr. O’Block as coadjutor is affirmed by the Church’s board of directors and Holy Synod. Bishop O’Block is re-consecrated sub conditione by Presiding Bishop Huron Clay Manning, Jr., assisted by several other bishops of the Southern Episcopal Church of the United States of America (founded in 1962 and incorporated in Tennessee in 1968).

August 7, 2008: Father William Martin Sloane is consecrated to the episcopate by Bishops Manning, O’Block, William Harold Corley, Charles George Fry, Robert William Hotes and Richard M. Johnson. Archbishop O’Block then names Dr. Sloane as his coadjutor and retires to Archbishop Emeritus status. The Church’s board of directors and Holy Synod vote (a) for Bishop Sloane to be affirmed as Archbishop and (b) for the CCC/DoB to function as a diocese of the SEC/USA
(Also WORLD KARATE UNION HALL OF FAME INDUCTEES Master Robert Louis O'Block)
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Re: Tick, tick, tick . . .

Postby Jimmy » Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:13 am

And yet the American College of Forensic Examiners is an approved CEU provider for the American Psychological Association, the National Board for Certified Counselors, the California Board of Registered Nursing, the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, and for social work by the Association of Social Work Boards (ASWB).
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Re: Tick, tick, tick . . .

Postby Bill Huffman » Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:52 pm

Jimmy wrote:And yet the American College of Forensic Examiners is an approved CEU provider for the American Psychological Association, the National Board for Certified Counselors, the California Board of Registered Nursing, the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, and for social work by the Association of Social Work Boards (ASWB).


I think there still might be some ticking going on.
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Re: Tick, tick, tick . . .

Postby Jimmy » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:25 pm

Bill Huffman wrote:
Jimmy wrote:And yet the American College of Forensic Examiners is an approved CEU provider for the American Psychological Association, the National Board for Certified Counselors, the California Board of Registered Nursing, the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, and for social work by the Association of Social Work Boards (ASWB).


I think there still might be some ticking going on.


Let us know when it gets to the tock level. :mrgreen:
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Re: Tick, tick, tick . . .

Postby jrfletcher12 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:14 pm

I find it funny that people would actually take the time to construe and post complete untruths on the internet. If all of the well known forensic scientists look down on this organization and its credentials, then how is it that Dr. Cyril H. Wecht, world renowned pathologist is the chair of their executive advisory board. Oh and I guess Dr. Henry Lee and John Douglas both being active members is simply a coincidence as well. Dr. Robert O'Block is a kind, generous man that saw a need and create a means to fulfill the need. The ACFEI has several advisory boards filled with top names from around the country and the world that develop top notch programs in several disciplines within the forensic science community. Also John Bear forgot to mention that Dr. O'Block is a military contractor and that the organizations hold 9 outside accreditations including ACCME, NASBA, ADA and the ones listed by Jimmy. Would these organizations accredit a "certification mill" or are there not standards that you have to meet.
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Re: Tick, tick, tick . . .

Postby milkman » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:54 pm

jrfletcher12 wrote:I find it funny that people would actually take the time to construe and post complete untruths on the internet. If all of the well known forensic scientists look down on this organization and its credentials, then how is it that Dr. Cyril H. Wecht, world renowned pathologist is the chair of their executive advisory board. Oh and I guess Dr. Henry Lee and John Douglas both being active members is simply a coincidence as well. Dr. Robert O'Block is a kind, generous man that saw a need and create a means to fulfill the need. The ACFEI has several advisory boards filled with top names from around the country and the world that develop top notch programs in several disciplines within the forensic science community. Also John Bear forgot to mention that Dr. O'Block is a military contractor and that the organizations hold 9 outside accreditations including ACCME, NASBA, ADA and the ones listed by Jimmy. Would these organizations accredit a "certification mill" or are there not standards that you have to meet.


Thanks Mr. First Time poster, but it is still an unrecognized organization and does not appear credible. Try your spin on some other forum.
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Re: Tick, tick, tick . . .

Postby doctordoctor01 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:41 pm

1. Do you think they know that O'Block not only has unaccredited degrees, but also degrees that do not exist?

http://www.magisteruniversity.com/directories.php
(IUGS does not offer a Doctor of Psychoanalysis)

2. Do you think they know that the O'Block owns the TM for the certifications?

http://www.trademarkia.com/trademark-by ... le%20Trust

3. Do you think they know that O'Block funneled $400,000 from the not-for-profit corporation to a for-profit corporation?

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2 ... 237-9O.pdf
(have to register)

4. Do you think they know that O'Block has no professional license in anything?

Tock!
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Re: Tick, tick, tick . . .

Postby jrfletcher12 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:01 pm

I wouldn't have to be on here posting if there wasn't a need for truth to be revealed. Dr. O'Block owns the company, why wouldn't he own the trademarks to the products? If he possesses fully accredited degrees (which he does, including his PhD) then why does it matter if he holds an unaccredited one as well. Perhaps it interested him. What professional licenses does a company founder and publisher need to possess? Did you know that he holds a Missouri Peace Officer Class A License? I guess he pulled a wool over their eyes too. I guess he pulls a wool daily over federal law enforcement, the military, doctors, lawyers, accountants, nurses, police officers, homeland security professionals, psychologists, and more as they are all members of his organizations. It's amazing to me that this "non-credible" business has been going for 18 years. Why don't you come to one of the annual conferences and see for yourselves.
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Re: Tick, tick, tick . . .

Postby Tark » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:00 am

Dr. O'Block is also the founder of the American Psychotherapy Association, which in 2002 issued "Diplomate" certification in psychotherapy to a cat.

O'Block has made a very successful career from issuing credentials. He has founded or co-founded the following credentialing boards:

- the American Psychotherapy Association
- the American Board for Certification in Homeland Security
- the American College of Forensic Examiners International
- the American Association of Integrative Medicine

In the past, there have been accusations that some of the credentials issued by these boards were relatively easy to obtain. In fact, the cat certification was obtained by a former member of the American Psychotherapy Association's Advisory Board, who resigned after coming to this conclusion. He found (in 2002) that Diplomate certification in psychotherapy could be obtained with a faked CV and a check; no attempt was made to verify any of the (deliberately nonsensical) information on his cat's CV, or to request copies of academic transcripts, licenses, etc.

In fairness, it's my impression that the O'Block organizations have tightened their standards in recent years.
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Re: Tick, tick, tick . . .

Postby Tark » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:23 am

If he possesses fully accredited degrees (which he does, including his PhD) then why does it matter if he holds an unaccredited one as well. Perhaps it interested him.

Perhaps one might (hypothetically) question whether a given individual is really qualified to certify professionals in a specialized technical field like (for example) psychotherapy, if that individual himself lacks any sort of accredited degree or state license in that field.
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Re: Tick, tick, tick . . .

Postby Jimmy » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:25 am

Tark wrote:...In fairness, it's my impression that the O'Block organizations have tightened their standards in recent years.


You are correct. The American Psychotherapy Association has indeed become more professional and has had on its board such internationally renowned psychiatrists as William Glasser and Aaron Beck. It's peer reviewed Annals is a highly professional, well-written, thoroughly researched, clinically sound organ on the cutting edge of psychotherapy.
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Re: Tick, tick, tick . . .

Postby Tark » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:48 pm

Even if the American Psychotherapy Association has upgraded, the problem is that it still may have issued credentials to many questionable individuals in its earlier days.

For example, there is a currently a major legal issue regarding a "psychologist" in upstate New York, who was hired to "perform as a psychologist for the office of the public defender and Saratoga County Family Court" and "was used to evaluate people petitioning the court or those accused of crimes." All of the cases that he worked on are now in question, because his "doctoral degree in psychology" was from unaccredited Hamilton University of Wyoming, which is widely regarded as a diploma mill.

The same individual is currently listed as a "Fellow" of the American Psychotherapy Association, the highest of the numerous credentials that they issue. There is reason to suspect that a diploma mill degree would have passed their review process, at least historically.

*****

It's interesting to note that the American Psychotherapy Association (I am reluctant to use the initials "APA", because of the potential for confusion with the legitimate American Psychological Association) and other O'Block organizations routinely post legal disclaimers on their materials. For example, the application for their "Board Certified Professional Counselor" title states that

"The American Psychotherapy Association or the American Board of Professional Counselors does not endorse, guarantee or warrant the credentials, work or opinions of any individual member.

Other O'Block organizations, like AFCEI, post similar disclaimers. So what exactly does an O'Block credential really mean? Does it mean that the holder has achieved a certain minimum level of education, work experience, and/or licensure? No, the disclaimer indicates that it does not.

But in that case, what is the value of the certification? What exactly does it certify?

*****

Dave Barry once wrote that if you could translate the impressive Latin document hanging on the wall in your doctor's waiting room, it would read:

"This certifies that NORBERT B. HODPACKER has a great big piece of paper on his wall"

Amusing, huh?
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Re: Tick, tick, tick . . .

Postby jrfletcher12 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:11 pm

Well let's take a look at the requirements for a competing organization with the ACFEI. The Certified Fraud Examiner credential lists this as the requirements:

Do I Meet the Qualifications for Becoming a CFE?

Before you may apply for the CFE Exam, you must meet the following requirements:

* Be an Associate Member of the ACFE in good standing
* Meet minimum Academic and Professional requirements
* Be of high moral character
* Agree to abide by the Bylaws and Code of Professional Ethics of the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners

Academic Requirements
Generally, applicants for CFE certification have a minimum of a Bachelor's degree (or equivalent) from an institution of higher learning. No specific field of study is required. If you do not have a Bachelor's degree, you may substitute two years of fraud-related professional experience for each year of academic study. For example, if you successfully attended college full-time for only two years, you would need an additional four years of professional experience to qualify for the education requirements.

When you apply, you will be awarded qualifying points for the specific level of education you claim.

Professional Requirements
At the time you are certified, you must have at least two years of professional experience in a field either directly or indirectly related to the detection or deterrence of fraud.

The Board of Regents has established the following categories as acceptable fraud-related experience:

* Accounting and Auditing: You may qualify if you have experience as an accountant or auditor (e.g., internal or external auditor), and have certain responsibilities for the detection and deterrence of fraud by evaluating accounting systems for weaknesses, designing internal controls, determining the degree of organizational fraud risk, interpreting financial data for unusual trends, and following up on fraud indicators.
* Criminology and Sociology: Only those professionals with education or research in the fraud and white-collar crime dimensions of sociology or criminology may claim experience under this category. An experienced background in general sociological fields is insufficient.
* Fraud Investigation: Experience in the investigation of civil or criminal fraud, or of white-collar crime for law enforcement agencies or in the private sector, qualifies. Examples include federal, state, or local law enforcement (e.g., IRS, inspectors general, and district attorney investigators). Insurance fraud investigators and fraud examiners working for corporations, businesses, or associations qualify as well.
* Loss Prevention: Security directors for corporations and associations who deal with issues of loss prevention may claim this experience as credit. Security consultants dealing with fraud-related issues also are eligible. Experience as a security guard or equivalent is not acceptable.
* Law: Candidates with experience in the legal field might qualify, provided the experience deals with some consideration of fraud. Examples include prosecuting lawyers, fraud litigators, and others with an anti-fraud specialization.

If your experience does not fall into one of the above categories, but your responsibilities include the detection, investigation, or deterrence of fraud, you may submit your application and fee along with a detailed description of your background.

The Point System
Your eligibility to be certified is based upon a point system, which awards credit for education and experience.
# Check to see your Point Score


Ok now here are the requirements for the Certified Forensic Accountant, CrFA course that Dr. O'Block's organization offers:

Applicants must currently hold the Certified Public Accountant (CPA) designation. Any accountant making application for the credential Certified Forensic Accountant, Cr.FA®, must first be registered with his/her State Board of Accountancy if required by state law. No one may make application for Certified Forensic Accountant, Cr.FA, unless they are first in compliance with all local ordinances, state laws, and federal regulations.

Prior to sitting for the examination(s) you will be asked to provide photocopies of degrees, diplomas, certificates, licenses, and three professional references. In addition, you must have no record of disciplinary action from any state, province, or territory licensing or certification board during the past 10 years, nor currently be under investigation. You must also have no felony convictions.

Please note, this program is designed for individuals with existing knowledge in the area of forensic accounting.

International professionals who wish to become a Certified Forensic Accountant must hold a designation that is equivalent to the CPA in the United States. Applicants must submit a portfolio of supporting documentation to include a photo ID, photocopies of any licenses/certificates, and copy of your current resume to provide verification of the equivalent designation. Supporting documentation must be in English in order to be reviewed.

Frequently Asked Questions

What are the minimum qualifications to be a Cr.FA®?

The applicant must have a minimum of a Bachelor's Degree, a current CPA License, 3 Professional References, and forensic accounting background; the Cr.FA is not an entry-level course, some experience is required.
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Re: Tick, tick, tick . . .

Postby Jimmy » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:18 pm

Tark wrote:Even if the American Psychotherapy Association has upgraded, the problem is that it still may have issued credentials to many questionable individuals in its earlier days.

For example, there is a currently a major legal issue regarding a "psychologist" in upstate New York, who was hired to "perform as a psychologist for the office of the public defender and Saratoga County Family Court" and "was used to evaluate people petitioning the court or those accused of crimes." All of the cases that he worked on are now in question, because his "doctoral degree in psychology" was from unaccredited Hamilton University of Wyoming, which is widely regarded as a diploma mill.

The same individual is currently listed as a "Fellow" of the American Psychotherapy Association, the highest of the numerous credentials that they issue. There is reason to suspect that a diploma mill degree would have passed their review process, at least historically...


While I agree this is very sad and sickening, there have been literally hundreds of legitimately credentialed psychologists and psychiatrists who have faced criminal prosecution which basically means it's the person, not necessarily the credential that is problematic. Just my opinion, and that's all it is.
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Re: Tick, tick, tick . . .

Postby Tark » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:41 pm

let's take a look at the requirements for a competing organization with the ACFEI.

OK. But note that the CFE credential is offered to a wide variety of financial professionals, whereas the CrFA credential is offered to licensed accountants specifically. So this is an apples-to-oranges comparison.

For an apples-to-apples scenario, how about comparing the CrFA to the "Certified in Financial Forensics" credential offered by the American Insitute of Certified Public Accountants? The AICPA is, of course, the oldest (since 1887) and largest (370,000 members) group of licensed accounting professionals in the US. The AICPA develops and grades the Uniform CPA Exam, which is used by all US states as the standard for licensure.

Both credentials require state licensure (which, as noted above, is based on the AICPA's exams).

Both credentials require an additional exam. The CFF exam has a time limit of 4 hours. I couldn't find any time limit for the CrFA exam.

The CFF requires 1,000 hours of documented business experience in forensic accounting over the past 10 years. The CrFA requires an unspecified "forensic accounting background"; applicants are requested to submit a CV and the names of three references.

Realistically, the AICPA is a much older, larger, and more prestigious association than the American Board of Forensic Accounting. They also appear to have more stringent forensic experience requirements than the ABFA. Furthermore, the AICPA has a strong reputation for tough and respected exams, due to years of developing and grading the Uniform CPA exam for every state government in the US. The ABFA has no particular reputation in this regard.

So -- what does AFCEI/ABFA certification in forensic accounting have to offer, relative to AICPA/CFF certification ?
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